PugJesus was citing a poll that supposedly showed that if all voters who stayed home because of the Gaza genocide had voted for Harris, she would’ve won. The poll showed that out of 19 million voters that voted for Biden in 2020 but not Harris in 2024, the top reason for 19% of them was Gaza. That’s 5.5 million votes nationwide. I did the math, and the margin in favor of Republicans among the swing states they won in 2024[1] was 761,000 votes. So while it’s possible that enough of those 5.5 million votes were in those states particularly, I would posit that it’s more likely that people stayed home outside of swing states, not in swing states, so he has to do more work to prove his point.
Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin ↩︎
Additional point: IMO leftists in the US shouldn’t shy away from taking responsibility for Harris losing. If your votes cost her the election, then you should use that as evidence that you have leverage over the party, and your votes are necessary for them to win, so they should stop committing genocide. I see too many people in this thread and the linked thread running away from that accusation when, insofar as the left should engage in electoralism, wrecking liberal candidates’ campaigns by demanding that they cede ground to the left is one of the most productive things we can achieve anyway. If they don’t give us the basic things by voting, just remember, ballot or the bullet.
Yeah I’m fine with taking that idea as fact, which means it’s Kamala’s fault for not listening to the people who said unless they stop doing genocide she would lose
here’s her response during the campaign when someone asked her if Gaza could cost her the election
repeats the genocide-enabling r*pe lie even as the zionists were systematically r*ping detainees and even rioting for the “right” to r*pe said detainees
Also even if it were true, which it isn’t, that still doesn’t excuse Israel committing genocide.
That shit pisses me off. They try to excuse their own actions by lying about someone else’s actions and the lie doesn’t even excuse anything!
“There were Hamas tunnels under the hospital” that’s still a war crime!!! Hamas having tunnels under a hospital wouldn’t give you the right to bomb the hospital!
Like, the legal obligation of the Israeli Military on and after October 7th, according to international law, was to lay down their arms and give Hamas all of their demands. Israel is an occupying power. Occupying powers have no right to defend themselves, and occupied peoples have the right to resist occupation by “all available means”.
I fucking hate these people, they’re evil, but they’re also fucking liars.
It’s also admitting to collective punishment against civilians (“they made us do this when they committed a holocaust on October 7” etc), which is also an atrocity
When that poll came out, it was posted here to show that supporting genocide cost Harris the election, and a lib came in to debunk it with your argument about swing states (from what I remember, the swing state numbers change things somewhat, but not as strongly as they were claiming).
We’re really going to keep having this same argument, over and over, from both directions, and libs will freely switch to whatever side makes the leftists wrong.
I agree with not shying away from responsibility. There’s no contradiction for us in that case. Either leftists were strong enough to swing the election, or we should have been. For the ghouls, there’s no contradiction either. Either the leftists were irrelevant in the election, or they should have been. It’s the people who support the democrats while claiming to be against genocide who have to be skilled at switching realities to argue with whatever they think the leftist in front of them is saying.
I don’t know if this counts but i got a letter from a state level candidate asking me to send in things that were important to me to get me to vote for them. This was a few months ago. So i sent one back that told them if they either publically denounced Israel as a genocidal state, and called for it to be invaded by a UN coalition, or got the endorsment of Xi Jinping that I’d vote for them. I doubt they’ll listen though sadly…
It is also not the voters fault for staying home. The Harris campaign and the DNC did everything possible to belittle and ignore the Gaza Genocide. So yeah…
There’s so much handwringing in there about “purity tests,” and how it is unreasonable (reactionary, even) for the left to abstain just because the Democratic candidate is not “literally perfect.”
Dawg, if the Democrats were “less than perfect,” I’d vote for them. I refuse to vote for them because they are my enemies. When these motherfuckers took power in 2021, they immediately disavowed the abolitionist movement and vowed to “fund the police.” They sharpened every single implement of state violence, dutifully continued building multiple “cop cities,” turned this repressive apparatus against student anti-genocide demonstrations across the country, and then handed the keys right over to Trump. They should be prosecuted, not re-elected.
Swear to fucking god, you ask for one candidate who doesn’t belong in the Hague and these people accuse you of purity tests. You vote for the most popular candidate who doesn’t belong in the Hague and they accuse you of spoiling your ballot.
PugJesus was citing a poll that supposedly showed that if all voters who stayed home because of the Gaza genocide had voted for Harris, she would’ve won. The poll showed that out of 19 million voters that voted for Biden in 2020 but not Harris in 2024, the top reason for 19% of them was Gaza. That’s 5.5 million votes nationwide. I did the math, and the margin in favor of Republicans among the swing states they won in 2024[1] was 761,000 votes. So while it’s possible that enough of those 5.5 million votes were in those states particularly, I would posit that it’s more likely that people stayed home outside of swing states, not in swing states, so he has to do more work to prove his point.
Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin ↩︎
Additional point: IMO leftists in the US shouldn’t shy away from taking responsibility for Harris losing. If your votes cost her the election, then you should use that as evidence that you have leverage over the party, and your votes are necessary for them to win, so they should stop committing genocide. I see too many people in this thread and the linked thread running away from that accusation when, insofar as the left should engage in electoralism, wrecking liberal candidates’ campaigns by demanding that they cede ground to the left is one of the most productive things we can achieve anyway. If they don’t give us the basic things by voting, just remember, ballot or the bullet.
Yeah I’m fine with taking that idea as fact, which means it’s Kamala’s fault for not listening to the people who said unless they stop doing genocide she would lose
here’s her response during the campaign when someone asked her if Gaza could cost her the election
repeats the genocide-enabling r*pe lie even as the zionists were systematically r*ping detainees and even rioting for the “right” to r*pe said detainees
Also even if it were true, which it isn’t, that still doesn’t excuse Israel committing genocide.
That shit pisses me off. They try to excuse their own actions by lying about someone else’s actions and the lie doesn’t even excuse anything!
“There were Hamas tunnels under the hospital” that’s still a war crime!!! Hamas having tunnels under a hospital wouldn’t give you the right to bomb the hospital!
Like, the legal obligation of the Israeli Military on and after October 7th, according to international law, was to lay down their arms and give Hamas all of their demands. Israel is an occupying power. Occupying powers have no right to defend themselves, and occupied peoples have the right to resist occupation by “all available means”.
I fucking hate these people, they’re evil, but they’re also fucking liars.
It’s also admitting to collective punishment against civilians (“they made us do this when they committed a holocaust on October 7” etc), which is also an atrocity
Accused of a war crime? Time to come up with a lie that admits to a second war crime while also failing to to excuse the first.
To do otherwise would be antisemitic
When that poll came out, it was posted here to show that supporting genocide cost Harris the election, and a lib came in to debunk it with your argument about swing states (from what I remember, the swing state numbers change things somewhat, but not as strongly as they were claiming).
We’re really going to keep having this same argument, over and over, from both directions, and libs will freely switch to whatever side makes the leftists wrong.
Yeah there’s a simple solution here
Evidence shows leftists cost Kamala the election: Good, the dems should be afraid of us, we have more power so we can make substantial demands.
Evidence shows leftists didn’t affect elections: Fine, keep building the left, forget national elections, localize the intifada
I agree with not shying away from responsibility. There’s no contradiction for us in that case. Either leftists were strong enough to swing the election, or we should have been. For the ghouls, there’s no contradiction either. Either the leftists were irrelevant in the election, or they should have been. It’s the people who support the democrats while claiming to be against genocide who have to be skilled at switching realities to argue with whatever they think the leftist in front of them is saying.
The only electoral politics I hold is that the democrats should eat shit in elections until they learn to move left
I don’t know if this counts but i got a letter from a state level candidate asking me to send in things that were important to me to get me to vote for them. This was a few months ago. So i sent one back that told them if they either publically denounced Israel as a genocidal state, and called for it to be invaded by a UN coalition, or got the endorsment of Xi Jinping that I’d vote for them. I doubt they’ll listen though sadly…
It is also not the voters fault for staying home. The Harris campaign and the DNC did everything possible to belittle and ignore the Gaza Genocide. So yeah…
There’s so much handwringing in there about “purity tests,” and how it is unreasonable (reactionary, even) for the left to abstain just because the Democratic candidate is not “literally perfect.”
Dawg, if the Democrats were “less than perfect,” I’d vote for them. I refuse to vote for them because they are my enemies. When these motherfuckers took power in 2021, they immediately disavowed the abolitionist movement and vowed to “fund the police.” They sharpened every single implement of state violence, dutifully continued building multiple “cop cities,” turned this repressive apparatus against student anti-genocide demonstrations across the country, and then handed the keys right over to Trump. They should be prosecuted, not re-elected.
Swear to fucking god, you ask for one candidate who doesn’t belong in the Hague and these people accuse you of purity tests. You vote for the most popular candidate who doesn’t belong in the Hague and they accuse you of spoiling your ballot.