You must log in or register to comment.
Got some real winners in that thread.
CW: anti-semitism
New typa guy dropped: Pro-Bandera, anti-Ukraine.
That’s a really specific type of brain worms that should be studied for science
Rare cultivar of gusano
“send me your cranial measurements you old Yakubian ape I must study you for science”
anti-commie black-hundreds russian (so whitey/monarchist enjoyer). a significant portion of them became pro-hitler in their exile
Then who sieged Leningrad from the north, motherfucker, WHO WAS DOING THE SIEGING?
Isn’t every single country that was Nazi during WW2 already in NATO even if we ignore Finland? I have no idea what point he is trying to make by invoking NATO.
instrumental hsitory of “you are with us so you couldn’t have been bad”
Austria isn’t a member - their postwar constitution insists on technical neutrality.
Love to non-Nazily attack the Soviet Union alongside Nazi Germany during WW2 with swastika covered military equipment.
But after the Nazis had lost they said “btw we did it for liberal democracy and stuff and also communism bad” so how can they have been Nazis?
Grok, is this true? What was the Finnish Airforce’s logo in the 1940’s?
spoiler
It’s actually still used in various capacities by the airforce, it’s just not the insignia they put on the aircraft anymore.
didn’t they change it in like 2019, to be less obvious?
2019???
Don’t be ridiculous, it didn’t take until 2019 to stop using a swastika!
spoiler
They still use it as part of their air force academy emblem & iconography!
IIRC adoption of the swastika by the Finnish army actually predates the Nazi party.
This old excuse. It was used because it was the personal symbol of an aristocrat anti-communist who funded the Finnish whites in their slaughter of communists and jews during that civil war. This was AFTER Ariosophy had adopted the symbol. Early proto-fascists like the Order of the New Templars who formed in 1900 had adopted the swastika. It is more like Hitler and this guy got it from the same place. This donor also was the brother in law of Goring who has even remarked on the symbol being all over his house around 1919-1922, though the Nazis had already adopted the symbol before Goring and Hitler met.
The point is, Von Rosen was literally the founder of the Swedish Nazi party and funded the far right in Finland, giving them planes marked with a symbol long since tied to Armanism and the like, and then proceeded to be an ardent supporter of Hitler once he joined that broader movement.
It is honestly MORE damning when you look up the actual history because it reveals how entrenched these people were already, and how they had been true believers long before Hitler came into the picture. They knew what the symbol meant, they made it what it became, and then joined ranks once a subset of them gained real prominence.
It predates the Nazi party not because it is clean, but because its bloody, dirty, soiled hands forged the Nazis in its own image. Also Latvia’s air force and a bunch of their military used the swastika starting with their anti-Bolshevik war until joining the USSR.
Good to know, thanks for the information.
The Nazi party adopted swastika on the advice of the same man who introduced it to Finnish army. And he was a Swedish Nazi.
I wish there were real material penalties for this kind of blatant deceit about history
hey, quick question, when was NATO established and when did World War 2 begin?
In my limited understanding, siding with Finland on the Winter War is justifiable, but whitewashing the Continuation War as the OOOP is doing is just abominable. I don’t give a shit if the Fins let Jews serve in the army, they were directly facilitating the annihilation of the population of Leningrad and beyond, by starving Soviets and trapping them while Nazis invaded, soldier and civilian alike. They were genocidaires just as much as any of the other Nazi collaborators.
kinda sorta if one ignores
to trade territory, white terror (everyone except commies will ignore it), and, i think, by 1937 nazis were very openly courting themI think the trade offer is a sign of relative good faith by the Soviets (this being completely agnostic of, for example, the economic value of the territories because I just don’t know enough), and the other factors you mentioned, while obviously relevant to assessing Finland wrt the OOP, don’t seem especially relevant to the issue of if the Winter War was legitimately defensive.
The Fins were champions of fascism well before the Winter War, but I don’t think that was especially important to the war itself. I suppose this is a rare case where perhaps even Poland is a good example, because Polish territory got taken over for very similar (though imo somewhat better) reasons, but the Polish government ended up working with the Soviets anyway to eliminate the Nazis and always regarded the Nazis as the bigger problem, even during the Soviet invasion.
The Polish government just plain didn’t view the Nazis as the bigger problem. In fact even England came to be baffled by the Poles outright stating that they would rather the Nazis.
The war scare prompted the French government to sound out Poland about its support, though the Poles had already offered numerous indications of their intent. On May 22 Bonnet called in the Polish ambassador in Paris, Juliusz Lukasiewicz, to ask what the Polish policy would be. “We’ll not move,” replied Lukasiewicz. The Franco-Polish defense treaty included no obligation in the event of war over Czechoslovakia, if France attacked Germany to support the Czech government, then France would be the aggressor. Not apparently overreacting to this extraordinary statement, Bonnet then inquired about the Polish attitude toward the Soviet Union, stressing the importance of Soviet support, given Polish “passiveness.” Lukasiewicz was equally categorical: “the Poles consider the Russians to be enemies…[we] will oppose by force, if necessary, any Russian entry onto [our] territory including overflights by Russian aircraft.” Czechoslovakia, Lukasiewicz added, was unworthy of French support.
If Bonnet had any doubts that the Polish ambassador was not accurately representing his government’s views, these were quickly put to rest by Field Marshal Edward Smigly-Rydz. He told the French ambassador in Warsaw, Leon Noel, that the Poles considered Russia, no matter who governed it, to be “Enemy No. 1” “If the German remains an adversary, he is not less a European and a man or order. For Poles, the Russian is a barbarian, an Asiatic, a corrupt and poisonous element, with which any contact is perilous and any compromise, lethal.” According to the Polish government, aggressive action by France, or movement of Soviet troops, say even across Romania, could prompt the Poles to side with Nazi Germany. This would suit many Poles, reported Noel: they “dream of conquests at the expense of the USSR, exaggerating its difficulties and counting on its collapse.” France had better not force Poland to choose between Russian and Germany, because their choice, according to Noel, could easily be guessed. As Daladier put it to the Soviet ambassador, “Not only can we not count on Polish support, but we have no faith that Poland will not strike [us] in the back.” Polish loyalty was in doubt even in the event of direct German aggression against France.
Colonel Jozef Beck was the Polish foreign minister and a key subordinate of Marshal Jozef Pilsudski, the Polish nationalist leader who had died in 1935…like Pilsudski, Beck was a Polish nationalist who hoped to reestablish Poland as a great power, as it had been in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Their efforts were unsuccessful, and this failure left Polish nationalists sout and quick to take offence. Yet they tended to carry on the business of state as though Poland _was a great power - dangerous conduct in the 1930s as Nazi Germany grew stronger and more predatory…
…Beck said that Poland would not “tie its hands” regarding Tesche, “it did not have belligerent intentions but it could not agree that German demands being satisfied, Poland should receive nothing.” Put another way, Beck said that he did not intend to leave Germany the exclusive benefits of a dismemberment of Czechoslovakia.
To emphasize that part again cause it is so horrific
**Field Marshal Edward Smigly-Rydz. He told the French ambassador in Warsaw, Leon Noel, that the Poles considered Russia, no matter who governed it, to be “Enemy No. 1” “If the German remains an adversary, he is not less a European and a man or order. For Poles, the Russian is a barbarian, an Asiatic, a corrupt and poisonous element, with which any contact is perilous and any compromise, lethal.” According to the Polish government, aggressive action by France, or movement of Soviet troops, say even across Romania, could prompt the Poles to side with Nazi Germany. This would suit many Poles, reported Noel: they “dream of conquests at the expense of the USSR, exaggerating its difficulties and counting on its collapse.” **
They not only felt the Nazis are preferable, their explicit reasoning was that they saw Slavs as subhuman and Asiatic. Outright saying they would rather be butchered by those of “superior blood” than live alongside those they felt are Untermensch
That is horrific and I really appreciate the context, but I do remember reading that once the Polish government fled to a different city, and then fled to another city right on the Romanian border where they hopped over in like a day after the Soviet invasion, they explicitly directed their army to consider the Nazis the greater problem (it had already been over two weeks into the Nazi invasion, so perhaps there was a reality check as they received reports on the level of slaughter the Nazis).
Gen. Edward Rydz-Śmigły, serving as the Supreme Commander, gave the general order not to engage at all with the Red Army, with the exception of being fired upon or if the Soviets attempted to disarm the Polish troops, and to retreat towards Romania and Hungary.
There was much more fighting against the Soviets than this would suggest, of course, but it was still the official position as far as I can tell.
That was the army. The army was much more abreast of the situation and competent. Famously Anders army was in the USSR and transported through Iran to the British to join up with them. But again this is effectively when the government has already fled to London and whatever is left have to fend for themselves. The government in exile practically abandoned the country
Let me tell you, it’s really rare for a Finn to straight up admit that the Continuation War was a war of aggression Finland fought alongside Nazi Germany without going into mental gymnastics like OOOP.
bit idea: Finland Fantasy VII
