What “potential leftism” was derailed by these protests?
The anti-deportation protests that were crushed by the military had the potential to become another summer of uprisings.
Although of course the uprisings in 2020 weren’t really “leftist” and were just an outpouring of outrage from the masses, and of course there is no organized left to lead the masses towards productive action, but the purpose of No Kings was certainly to help Trump prevent unrest.
Exactly this. Spontaneous, locally focused restistance to not just ICE raids but any militarised law enforcement was popping off organically with an increasing move towards organising local defense.
Then the libs come in with their Walmart & Democratic party sponsorship, turn it into a cop-friendly teaparty while actively harrassing actual organisers for things like Black Panther merch, wearing masks, or displaying keffiyehs (two of the organisers are dedicated zionists), drawing people away from the actual neighbourhoods that are in need of defense to their Instagram oppurtunities in city centres instead, before commiting to a coverup with the help of police after their armed designated ‘peacekeepers’ killed a protestor and tried to murder another before conspiring with law enforcement to smear him as a mass shooter and terrorist and pinning a murder charge on him.
The anti-deportation protests that were crushed by the military had the potential to become another summer of uprisings.
No Kings had absolutely no part in derailing that and 50501 was a useful vehicle for solidarity protests across the country. And I’m sorry, do you think the struggle over deportation is already over?
Spontaneous community self-defense violence by its very nature doesn’t last and comes in fits and starts. To look at the first wave of it in the current moment and say it was already defeated assumes that the rage has subsided and been subsumed. I don’t think the No Kings protest had nearly as much to do with it as the work week taking everybody’s time away. The violence in the streets was over days before the protest happened.
The work week took everyone’s time away, sure, and No Kings took the weekend away - the nail in the coffin.
I think we’ll see more outbursts from the masses in the future (a single weekend of counterrevolution can’t actually pacify the masses forever) but I think they bought themselves time with this stunt.
50501 was a useful vehicle for solidarity protests across the country.
0/10 as analysis
7/10 as a bit. Seriously. If you’re active on Hexbear - I can paraphrase you for my own jokes.
-–
I don’t like ELI5 because I want to be 15 not 5 to learn stuff. So ELI15 - what did the 50501, No Kings, etc. accomplish? As far as I know…
Nobody made a single demand.
Zero efforts were made at organizing.
And point #1 and #2 are the quasi-official position of lib organizers. Every protest will be the same by design.
Am I wrong somehow about those points?
Also I don’t think getting people to gather together - even in their millions - actually accomplished anything. In fact - I think the lib mindset that No Kings was a “win” against Trump is a mirage. You don’t defeat the fascists by holding up signs of their leader as a baby crawling who is crying that his crown fell off and broke.
Yes, because there are many more people involved than just the libs online.
Many protests had a very clear list of demands related to ICE, Iran and Palestine, education cuts, etc.
I know people across the country who put in tons of effort at capturing people into actual organizations and succeeded.
Also I don’t think getting people to gather together - even in their millions - actually accomplished anything. In fact - I think the lib mindset that No Kings was a “win” against Trump is a mirage. You don’t defeat the fascists by holding up signs of their leader as a baby crawling who is crying that his crown fell off and broke.
Yes, obviously. These sorts of protests will never accomplish anything directly. That doesn’t make them a waste. They are an opportunity to escalate those attendees to greater levels of political action. You need to meet people where they are to move them further along.
Many protests had a very clear list of demands related to ICE, Iran and Palestine, education cuts, etc.
Which lib protests and/or organizers made demands?
I know people across the country…
Those people are libs?
-–
It’s standard operating procedure for libs to derail spontaneous protests for their own ends. And I think it’s pretty clear that the libs are going to be highly active doing that for the next few years. To be pedantic - one of their ever-present goals of the libs is crushing the left. At Bluesky the lib version of solidarity is “building coalitions”. And - of course - leftists get nothing. Building coalitions means that leftists need to get on the lib train because that’s the only path forward that’s “realistic”. Any leftist demands need to be jettisoned because they are entirely “unrealistic”.
Why do I get the sense you’re going to keep arguing with at least five of us that we’re wrong about all this stuff?
Which lib protests and/or organizers made demands?
None! But there were not only lib protests, and that’s my point. And even if there were, you still need to show up and contest the political space.
Those people are libs?
No, they are communists. I’m saying that your characterization of this entire thing as “libs” is wrong because they just represent one segment vying for leadership of the whole thing and they have absolutely not secured it.
It’s standard operating procedure for libs to derail spontaneous protests for their own ends. And I think it’s pretty clear that the libs are going to be highly active doing that for the next few years. To be pedantic - one of their ever-present goals of the libs is crushing the left. At Bluesky the lib version of solidarity is “building coalitions”. And - of course - leftists get nothing. Building coalitions means that leftists need to get on the lib train because that’s the only path forward that’s “realistic”. Any leftist demands need to be jettisoned because they are entirely “unrealistic”.
Don’t let them do this to you! They have tried to do exactly that to me and my comrades. They wanted us to buckle and get on board with their demands while dropping ours. What did we do? We held an entirely separate competing protest that was very successful and drew as many people as theirs did. We laid out the communist line. We were uncompromisingly anti-imperialist. And those politics were well-received because the people are primed for anti-systemic politics
Why do I get the sense you’re going to keep arguing with at least five of us that we’re wrong about all this stuff?
No, they are communists. I’m saying that your characterization of this entire thing as “libs” is wrong because they just represent one segment vying for leadership of the whole thing and they have absolutely not secured it.
“They” absolutely will. They being ex political staffers who will seek money from donors they already have connections with to explicitly quell any revolutionary message. Distinctly happened with Extinction Rebellion where they ended up having an impenetrable controlled upper management of said people.
The anti-deportation protests that were crushed by the military had the potential to become another summer of uprisings.
Although of course the uprisings in 2020 weren’t really “leftist” and were just an outpouring of outrage from the masses, and of course there is no organized left to lead the masses towards productive action, but the purpose of No Kings was certainly to help Trump prevent unrest.
Exactly this. Spontaneous, locally focused restistance to not just ICE raids but any militarised law enforcement was popping off organically with an increasing move towards organising local defense.
Then the libs come in with their Walmart & Democratic party sponsorship, turn it into a cop-friendly teaparty while actively harrassing actual organisers for things like Black Panther merch, wearing masks, or displaying keffiyehs (two of the organisers are dedicated zionists), drawing people away from the actual neighbourhoods that are in need of defense to their Instagram oppurtunities in city centres instead, before commiting to a coverup with the help of police after their armed designated ‘peacekeepers’ killed a protestor and tried to murder another before conspiring with law enforcement to smear him as a mass shooter and terrorist and pinning a murder charge on him.
No Kings had absolutely no part in derailing that and 50501 was a useful vehicle for solidarity protests across the country. And I’m sorry, do you think the struggle over deportation is already over?
What seems to have happened is No Kings sucked all the oxygen out of the room and the confrontation in LA has calmed down. Yesterday there were no overnight arrests for the first time since the protests began. The struggle isn’t over, but it seems to have been pacified in LA.
Spontaneous community self-defense violence by its very nature doesn’t last and comes in fits and starts. To look at the first wave of it in the current moment and say it was already defeated assumes that the rage has subsided and been subsumed. I don’t think the No Kings protest had nearly as much to do with it as the work week taking everybody’s time away. The violence in the streets was over days before the protest happened.
The work week took everyone’s time away, sure, and No Kings took the weekend away - the nail in the coffin.
I think we’ll see more outbursts from the masses in the future (a single weekend of counterrevolution can’t actually pacify the masses forever) but I think they bought themselves time with this stunt.
0/10 as analysis
7/10 as a bit. Seriously. If you’re active on Hexbear - I can paraphrase you for my own jokes.
-–
I don’t like ELI5 because I want to be 15 not 5 to learn stuff. So ELI15 - what did the 50501, No Kings, etc. accomplish? As far as I know…
Am I wrong somehow about those points?
Also I don’t think getting people to gather together - even in their millions - actually accomplished anything. In fact - I think the lib mindset that No Kings was a “win” against Trump is a mirage. You don’t defeat the fascists by holding up signs of their leader as a baby crawling who is crying that his crown fell off and broke.
Yes, because there are many more people involved than just the libs online.
Many protests had a very clear list of demands related to ICE, Iran and Palestine, education cuts, etc.
I know people across the country who put in tons of effort at capturing people into actual organizations and succeeded.
Yes, obviously. These sorts of protests will never accomplish anything directly. That doesn’t make them a waste. They are an opportunity to escalate those attendees to greater levels of political action. You need to meet people where they are to move them further along.
Which lib protests and/or organizers made demands?
Those people are libs?
-–
It’s standard operating procedure for libs to derail spontaneous protests for their own ends. And I think it’s pretty clear that the libs are going to be highly active doing that for the next few years. To be pedantic - one of their ever-present goals of the libs is crushing the left. At Bluesky the lib version of solidarity is “building coalitions”. And - of course - leftists get nothing. Building coalitions means that leftists need to get on the lib train because that’s the only path forward that’s “realistic”. Any leftist demands need to be jettisoned because they are entirely “unrealistic”.
Why do I get the sense you’re going to keep arguing with at least five of us that we’re wrong about all this stuff?
None! But there were not only lib protests, and that’s my point. And even if there were, you still need to show up and contest the political space.
No, they are communists. I’m saying that your characterization of this entire thing as “libs” is wrong because they just represent one segment vying for leadership of the whole thing and they have absolutely not secured it.
Don’t let them do this to you! They have tried to do exactly that to me and my comrades. They wanted us to buckle and get on board with their demands while dropping ours. What did we do? We held an entirely separate competing protest that was very successful and drew as many people as theirs did. We laid out the communist line. We were uncompromisingly anti-imperialist. And those politics were well-received because the people are primed for anti-systemic politics
because you’re wrong
“They” absolutely will. They being ex political staffers who will seek money from donors they already have connections with to explicitly quell any revolutionary message. Distinctly happened with Extinction Rebellion where they ended up having an impenetrable controlled upper management of said people.