You wouldn’t know it given the reactions on this site. And I’m just happy we agree on “undue”. This is verbatim how people were doing AOC on r/cth however many years ago
Some of us are hopeful to watch the dreams of those who are more liberal than us get crushed. Obviously the situation with AOC and Bernie was radicalization fuel for many of us. The higher Zohran rises, the harder he falls (or succeeds somehow). This is exciting to see!
I think there’s a difference between people hoping for radicalization and those cheering on the campaign and holding onto the hope that he “succeeds somehow”
There isn’t, as far as our community is concerned, it’s a win-win situation even if one is more likely then the other. I am confident that people on Hexbear did not decide to forget about the weaknesses of electoralism last week. Maybe in other “leftist” communities or something that’s a problem, but I have faith in our comrades to have a balanced perspective, even if there’s a lot of excitement built in to what’s happening in the immediate term.
Also important is that even though he is not the most anti-zionist perspective out there, his victory represents an electoral rejection of Zionism by the NYC electorate, which bodes positively for the continued decline of popular support for Israel in general. Anti-zionism is only going to continue to gain momentum as they use it as a cudgel to attack a candidate that has a lot of popular policies.
We know the US has and will support Israel in the face of its unpopularity among its population, but the process is in motion already. Force the state to respond and shut it down! Or, once again, if they fail to shut it down, maybe LA or someplace shits out an even more outspoken local/state level candidate.
No question that the propaganda machine is incredibly effective, but it can’t stand up to “you want a candidate who runs on/lies about materially beneficial policies and wants to actively resist trump? Well you’re a bunch of communist antisemites” from the establishment. Once again, the higher Zohran rises (and Zohran 2.0 wherever that person comes from), the harder he’s going to fall with a ton of liberals looking on (60% of whom favor an overhaul of Democratic Party leadership).
It’s an effective propaganda opportunity to gas him up to liberals and get it he attention on him. It’s a fantastic learning experience!
Personally, I’m mostly excited about a potential new wave of radicalized liberals after a likely ratfuck by Democrats (like they did to India Walton, when they worked with Republicans during the Buffalo general election). This would further damage the reputation of an already highly unpopular Democratic Party among young people. I’ve already seen a few of them being ready to give up on the Dems, as they see Zohran as some sort of last attempt at trying to “convince” the party to move left.
I’ve been looking at this race that way as well. Although my more pessimistic side thinks it’s starting to feel like the cycle in America is:
“new age cohort enters the electorate —> tried electoralism, gets fucked over —> a certain percent radicalise, a certain percent give up on politics, a certain percent surrender to the status quo —> a new age cohort enters the electorate”
Obama 2008, Sanders 2016, (potentially) Mamdani 2025… are these moments of disillusion radicalising more and more of a percentage of the whole population against electoralism? Or is it just a succession of new generations learning the same lesson over and over again?
Call me old fashioned but it’s probably deteriorating material conditions that are going to radicalise more people in the long run.
Call me old fashioned but it’s probably deteriorating material conditions that are going to radicalise more people in the long run.
Definitely true, however you’re going to want a portion of the population “pre-heated” by these electoral defeats so they can do some vanguardism when the time is right. This is true even if it is stagnant and cyclical, like you propose. I don’t think I fully agree myself, but I could see it.
The true revolutionary action will happen at the periphery of the empire. If some Demsocs create internal strife and discontentment in the core, it allows for more opportunities for our comrades on the ground in the more materially impoverished areas to make some moves.
then just say that instead, “Bookmarking all yall for a year from now” is dripping with condescension and anticipation of getting to do a “i told you so” to everyone posting about mamdani
i’ll take the enlightened centristTM position in that calling him an outright lib like aoc doesnt really seem accurate with his past public comments and even the campaign he ran. but even assuming once he gets elected that he wont get utterly ratfucked in some way during his term (or even he turns out to be the most brilliant demsoc ever and manages to outplay the attempted ratfuckery i would be shocked if he were not imprisoned/assassinated at that point), isnt hopium it’s copium. i also think there’s plenty of stuff to criticize him about and i think people have been fawning over him here a little too hard, no im not saying he should have gone on stage and shouted death to isr*el but i also think he could have been more advesarial to the media when they kept calling him an antisemite.
Putting in quotes some shit I didn’t say. Temper your expectations
I’m pretty sure hexbear is aware of the pitfalls of electoralism.
Half of us on the site are 1 major life event from deleting ourselves, just let us have undue optimism for once ffs
You wouldn’t know it given the reactions on this site. And I’m just happy we agree on “undue”. This is verbatim how people were doing AOC on r/cth however many years ago
Some of us are hopeful to watch the dreams of those who are more liberal than us get crushed. Obviously the situation with AOC and Bernie was radicalization fuel for many of us. The higher Zohran rises, the harder he falls (or succeeds somehow). This is exciting to see!
I think there’s a difference between people hoping for radicalization and those cheering on the campaign and holding onto the hope that he “succeeds somehow”
There isn’t, as far as our community is concerned, it’s a win-win situation even if one is more likely then the other. I am confident that people on Hexbear did not decide to forget about the weaknesses of electoralism last week. Maybe in other “leftist” communities or something that’s a problem, but I have faith in our comrades to have a balanced perspective, even if there’s a lot of excitement built in to what’s happening in the immediate term.
Also important is that even though he is not the most anti-zionist perspective out there, his victory represents an electoral rejection of Zionism by the NYC electorate, which bodes positively for the continued decline of popular support for Israel in general. Anti-zionism is only going to continue to gain momentum as they use it as a cudgel to attack a candidate that has a lot of popular policies.
We know the US has and will support Israel in the face of its unpopularity among its population, but the process is in motion already. Force the state to respond and shut it down! Or, once again, if they fail to shut it down, maybe LA or someplace shits out an even more outspoken local/state level candidate.
No question that the propaganda machine is incredibly effective, but it can’t stand up to “you want a candidate who runs on/lies about materially beneficial policies and wants to actively resist trump? Well you’re a bunch of communist antisemites” from the establishment. Once again, the higher Zohran rises (and Zohran 2.0 wherever that person comes from), the harder he’s going to fall with a ton of liberals looking on (60% of whom favor an overhaul of Democratic Party leadership).
It’s an effective propaganda opportunity to gas him up to liberals and get it he attention on him. It’s a fantastic learning experience!
Disagree, but so it goes. I hope you’re right
Personally, I’m mostly excited about a potential new wave of radicalized liberals after a likely ratfuck by Democrats (like they did to India Walton, when they worked with Republicans during the Buffalo general election). This would further damage the reputation of an already highly unpopular Democratic Party among young people. I’ve already seen a few of them being ready to give up on the Dems, as they see Zohran as some sort of last attempt at trying to “convince” the party to move left.
I’ve been looking at this race that way as well. Although my more pessimistic side thinks it’s starting to feel like the cycle in America is:
“new age cohort enters the electorate —> tried electoralism, gets fucked over —> a certain percent radicalise, a certain percent give up on politics, a certain percent surrender to the status quo —> a new age cohort enters the electorate”
Obama 2008, Sanders 2016, (potentially) Mamdani 2025… are these moments of disillusion radicalising more and more of a percentage of the whole population against electoralism? Or is it just a succession of new generations learning the same lesson over and over again?
Call me old fashioned but it’s probably deteriorating material conditions that are going to radicalise more people in the long run.
Definitely true, however you’re going to want a portion of the population “pre-heated” by these electoral defeats so they can do some vanguardism when the time is right. This is true even if it is stagnant and cyclical, like you propose. I don’t think I fully agree myself, but I could see it.
The true revolutionary action will happen at the periphery of the empire. If some Demsocs create internal strife and discontentment in the core, it allows for more opportunities for our comrades on the ground in the more materially impoverished areas to make some moves.
Don’t worry, this is the election that’ll do it
I can’t believe you would say something like that!
then just say that instead, “Bookmarking all yall for a year from now” is dripping with condescension and anticipation of getting to do a “i told you so” to everyone posting about mamdani
i’ll take the enlightened centristTM position in that calling him an outright lib like aoc doesnt really seem accurate with his past public comments and even the campaign he ran. but even assuming once he gets elected that he wont get utterly ratfucked in some way during his term (or even he turns out to be the most brilliant demsoc ever and manages to outplay the attempted ratfuckery i would be shocked if he were not imprisoned/assassinated at that point), isnt hopium it’s copium. i also think there’s plenty of stuff to criticize him about and i think people have been fawning over him here a little too hard, no im not saying he should have gone on stage and shouted death to isr*el but i also think he could have been more advesarial to the media when they kept calling him an antisemite.
I’m glad we agree.