Hey now, just to be clear, I didn’t play Lona and I don’t play these games in general, I just end up finding out about them because I really like certain types of obscure indie RPGs and in the process of looking for them, I end up finding out about shit like this too.
Absolutely. I mean, I personally think someone who likes the game that I just mentioned is a porn-brained creep, but the fundamental issue when something is distributed that shouldn’t be distributed is pretty much always going to be the distributor and not the recipient. It’s a basic element of Marxist thinking that we should be deliberately cultivating environments that encourage people to be pro-social rather than leaving a bad environment as it is and moralizing regarding the individuals who respond to it in a completely predictable fashion. That kind of atomization and fixation on individual responsibility is how liberals deliberately avoid confronting systemic problems.
If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.
– Victor Hugo (via MLK)
I don’t take a view quite this totalizing and obviously here he is mostly talking about deprivation, but I think that materials that encourage misanthropic, chauvinistic, sadistic attitudes and feelings are their own kind of darkness and need to be dealt with accordingly.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn’t actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
My whole point is that I don’t appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff, but that whatever complaints I have about them consuming this shit isn’t fractionally as bad or worthwhile to discuss as the problem of it being put up for consumption to begin with.
I think the difference here – once explained – is pretty easy to understand. There’s a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That’s it.
I think that’s interesting because a lot of people take the opposite position – that people who consume this sort of thing and say it should be banned are hypocrites who can be dismissed – but I agree with you. I’d still think they’re sus, but I’d accept them believing it should be banned and they’re incomparably better than the chanlords who defend it.
Hey now, just to be clear, I didn’t play Lona and I don’t play these games in general, I just end up finding out about them because I really like certain types of obscure indie RPGs and in the process of looking for them, I end up finding out about shit like this too.
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Absolutely. I mean, I personally think someone who likes the game that I just mentioned is a porn-brained creep, but the fundamental issue when something is distributed that shouldn’t be distributed is pretty much always going to be the distributor and not the recipient. It’s a basic element of Marxist thinking that we should be deliberately cultivating environments that encourage people to be pro-social rather than leaving a bad environment as it is and moralizing regarding the individuals who respond to it in a completely predictable fashion. That kind of atomization and fixation on individual responsibility is how liberals deliberately avoid confronting systemic problems.
– Victor Hugo (via MLK)
I don’t take a view quite this totalizing and obviously here he is mostly talking about deprivation, but I think that materials that encourage misanthropic, chauvinistic, sadistic attitudes and feelings are their own kind of darkness and need to be dealt with accordingly.
Maybe most importantly, though I would still put a little fault on the consumer here if you asked me, fault doesn’t actually matter, what matters is what creates a better world, and here that involves heavily prioritizing cracking down on distribution, rather than attacking the creeps buying it.
deleted by creator
My whole point is that I don’t appreciate the creeps who like this sadistic, exploitative sort of stuff, but that whatever complaints I have about them consuming this shit isn’t fractionally as bad or worthwhile to discuss as the problem of it being put up for consumption to begin with.
I think the difference here – once explained – is pretty easy to understand. There’s a huge difference between erotica (etc.) that either recognizes the other as human or just objectifies them in a way that is unconcerned with their view, versus actively reveling in their suffering and subjugation. That’s it.
deleted by creator
I think that’s interesting because a lot of people take the opposite position – that people who consume this sort of thing and say it should be banned are hypocrites who can be dismissed – but I agree with you. I’d still think they’re sus, but I’d accept them believing it should be banned and they’re incomparably better than the chanlords who defend it.
deleted by creator