“One of the penalties of an ecological education is that one lives alone in a world of wounds. Much of the damage inflicted on land is quite invisible to laymen. An ecologist must either harden his shell and make believe that the consequences of science are none of his business, or he must be the doctor who sees the marks of death in a community that believes itself well and does not want to be told otherwise.” Aldo Leopold
I often go back to this interview specifically for this moment:
I was talking to a really prominent climate scientist a few months ago, who was one of the lead authors of the IPCC last report, and has been doing a lot of consulting work in New York City where he lives. So I said, “Are we gonna build a sea wall in New York?” And he said, “Oh, of course we’ll build a sea wall. Manhattan real estate’s way too expensive to lose.” But those kinds of projects … You look at the subway, it takes 30 years.
If we started now, he said, we couldn’t build it fast enough to save parts of Howard Beach, South Brooklyn, Queens. He said, “The city knows this, and you’re gonna start seeing them stopping infrastructure repair, not doing work on the subway lines and even telling those residents explicitly, ‘You might be able to live here for another 20 years, but you’re not gonna be able to leave this house for your kids.’”
As far as I’m aware they still haven’t started. From an article in 2024:
That guardian article, while depressing, was actually really nice for remembering we’re not alone in the despair, and in the technical/political struggle. Sometimes, after spending time with “ordinary fuckin people”, I’m almost convinced to ignore my lying eyes- fortunately the seeming omnipresence of convective cells reminds me.
I spend a decent amount of time with extremely “ordinary fuckin people”, and they really aren’t the worst, most people just seem to be tuned out. But especially with regards to the climate crisis and capitalist greed destroying us all, the majority of people seem to be in agreement.
For sure, I was just watching the show “party down” and the repo man quote stuck so I had to parrot it lol. But yeah in this age it’s information overload, so it makes sense to tune out. Especially if one perceives they’re doing their best, but it’s not helping or being acknowledged.
So then imo it’s easy to try and divide “ordinary” people from “ivory tower” practitioners when it comes to climate, by leaning on the implication individuals aren’t doing enough (contributing to alienation from the movement), can’t do more without an advanced degree (furthering alienation and sometimes disdain for practitioners), and that action to combat climate change will threaten whatever livelihood/stability they have more than the affects of climate’s itself (creating a strawman of climate activists).
“Getting to the Heart of Science Communication” is a book I really like; largely about “meeting people where they’re at”, but also understanding the path/traumas that have led there. So while I joke about mingling with “ordinary people” it really is the most rewarding; sometimes you’re the first person someone can “come out to” about climate woe, and then once their feelings are in the open, one can listen, learn, and guide them to contribute in the manner best fitting their means. In the process, you’re hopefully heading off hopelessness and tuning out, and building a community around an issue that affects the whole community. Grassroots action - who’da thunk
Which part? Things like the clathrate gun hypothesis, or that it will likely be hundreds of years and still a lot of effort for humanity to be done?
For the latter, I think you can take the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum as the “done” point (I don’t really agree there is such a point because people already live in ridiculous conditions now, and you can protect yourself from a wet bulb event for the price of a car) and from memory under RCP 8.5 (and drilling up the arctic) the IPCC modelling put that at a couple hundred years off.
We’re done aren’t we
Laughs in ecologist that has known we were done for decades now
I think about this quote a lot
But dirt owl, how fast will we be done?
I don’t know, like 20-50 years
Comrade Dirt Owl, is there any book that I can read about the FREAKING ECOLOGICAL COLLAPSE AND THE ESTIMATED EFFECTS FOR THE NEXT DECADES???
Thank you.
Ah, well, there is a lot of research on it in a lot of different fields… I struggle to think of a single source that sums it up nicely.
Let me try and find some reports. One moment.
Edit: here
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/climate-scientists-world-we-have-only-20-years-theres-no-turning-back
https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2024/may/08/hopeless-and-broken-why-the-worlds-top-climate-scientists-are-in-despair
Otherwise you’ll have to go search what you need from the Journal of Environmental Sciences https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/journal-of-environmental-sciences
It’s grave, but giving up isn’t an option. Gotta keep surviving.
David Wallace-Wells put out ‘The Uninhabitable Earth’ which I think is supposed to be worst case scenario.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/fighting-climate-action-uninhabitable-earth-author-david-wallace-wells-podcast-ncna979551
I often go back to this interview specifically for this moment:
As far as I’m aware they still haven’t started. From an article in 2024:
https://newrepublic.com/article/178452/clean-air-rich-luxury-good
That guardian article, while depressing, was actually really nice for remembering we’re not alone in the despair, and in the technical/political struggle. Sometimes, after spending time with “ordinary fuckin people”, I’m almost convinced to ignore my lying eyes- fortunately the seeming omnipresence of convective cells reminds me.
I spend a decent amount of time with extremely “ordinary fuckin people”, and they really aren’t the worst, most people just seem to be tuned out. But especially with regards to the climate crisis and capitalist greed destroying us all, the majority of people seem to be in agreement.
For sure, I was just watching the show “party down” and the repo man quote stuck so I had to parrot it lol. But yeah in this age it’s information overload, so it makes sense to tune out. Especially if one perceives they’re doing their best, but it’s not helping or being acknowledged.
So then imo it’s easy to try and divide “ordinary” people from “ivory tower” practitioners when it comes to climate, by leaning on the implication individuals aren’t doing enough (contributing to alienation from the movement), can’t do more without an advanced degree (furthering alienation and sometimes disdain for practitioners), and that action to combat climate change will threaten whatever livelihood/stability they have more than the affects of climate’s itself (creating a strawman of climate activists).
“Getting to the Heart of Science Communication” is a book I really like; largely about “meeting people where they’re at”, but also understanding the path/traumas that have led there. So while I joke about mingling with “ordinary people” it really is the most rewarding; sometimes you’re the first person someone can “come out to” about climate woe, and then once their feelings are in the open, one can listen, learn, and guide them to contribute in the manner best fitting their means. In the process, you’re hopefully heading off hopelessness and tuning out, and building a community around an issue that affects the whole community. Grassroots action - who’da thunk
Thank you very much! Also thanks to JoeByeThen!
Totally. At the end of the day, we need to keep fighting.
Hasta la victoria, siempre.
The timeline is really more like a hundred years at least, and even then you’re relying heavily on catastrophic and sometimes dubious tipping points
Based on?
Which part? Things like the clathrate gun hypothesis, or that it will likely be hundreds of years and still a lot of effort for humanity to be done?
For the latter, I think you can take the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum as the “done” point (I don’t really agree there is such a point because people already live in ridiculous conditions now, and you can protect yourself from a wet bulb event for the price of a car) and from memory under RCP 8.5 (and drilling up the arctic) the IPCC modelling put that at a couple hundred years off.
Dirt Owl lore drop