Any correct thinking leftist in the west would obviously be against their own government’s imperialist actions. They should all support limiting military spending, aiding arms embargoes, withdrawing our forces, pushing for peace/ceasefires in all of our active conflicts, etc. Any anti-war hippie knows this, even the lib ones going totally on vibes.
So as long as you do that part, actually opposing your own empire in material ways as directly as you can, what does it matter your opinion on the russian or iranian states are? We aren’t russian or iranian, we can’t do anything to change their policies from without - all we can do is beat the drums of war of our own empire to do it on our behalf, which directly contradicts the goals above. What’s the point in even bringing up how evil Russia or Iran are as a westerner? Whether they are pure saints or demons incarnate it doesn’t change what your short-term tangible goals are, so why are you wasting time squabbling over it instead of getting to work?
There’s a chinese saying… something like ‘an egg cracked from within brings new life. an egg cracked from without is someone’s meal’. This is how social progress must work, it must arise organically from within following the natural development of that society advancing. It cannot be imposed from without via violent force, and those who claim to do so are looking for a meal.
In short: Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits.
So as long as you do that part, actually opposing your own empire in material ways as directly as you can, what does it matter your opinion on the russian or iranian states are? We aren’t russian or iranian, we can’t do anything to change their policies from without - all we can do is beat the drums of war of our own empire to do it on our behalf, which directly contradicts the goals above. What’s the point in even bringing up how evil Russia or Iran are as a westerner? Whether they are pure saints or demons incarnate it doesn’t change what your short-term tangible goals are, so why are you wasting time squabbling over it instead of getting to work?
it doesn’t materially matter directly to the situation but the analysis that gets us to our position and all the media literacy and so on are still relevant.
it’s potentially productive to tell libs who are mad at the democrats but don’t know anything besides nonviolent brunch marches that euromaidan was a coup, that western media was reporting on the nazi stuff and then stopped because they’re an extension of the government, that russia is in the right at the very least to protect the separatists from nazis, that they’d want canada to intervene on behalf of the PNW if those “greater idaho” nazis popped off shelling seattle for 7 years etc.
Yes, helping them see the bigger picture is beneficial - you are right. But I think right at the outset it’s important to determine whether you and the other person are even on the “same team” so to speak. If they can agree to opposing their own empire first and foremost, I’m willing to have further discussions later to get into the weeds of history and analysis and understand things better. However, if you cannot get them to agree to opposing American empire first and foremost, and they insist on continuing their chauvinistic attacks on “enemies” then this person is not on “your team”. You can never come to an understanding with such a person until you get them to accept the primary and first axiom, their revolutionary defeatist duty, that they are part of the evil empire and must oppose it first and foremost.
yeah. “look they did a fuckload of coups and ukraine was one of them” ought to be enough to get people on board with hating the empire, along with the invasion of iraq and a thousand other crimes against humanity.
Right.
Any correct thinking leftist in the west would obviously be against their own government’s imperialist actions. They should all support limiting military spending, aiding arms embargoes, withdrawing our forces, pushing for peace/ceasefires in all of our active conflicts, etc. Any anti-war hippie knows this, even the lib ones going totally on vibes.
So as long as you do that part, actually opposing your own empire in material ways as directly as you can, what does it matter your opinion on the russian or iranian states are? We aren’t russian or iranian, we can’t do anything to change their policies from without - all we can do is beat the drums of war of our own empire to do it on our behalf, which directly contradicts the goals above. What’s the point in even bringing up how evil Russia or Iran are as a westerner? Whether they are pure saints or demons incarnate it doesn’t change what your short-term tangible goals are, so why are you wasting time squabbling over it instead of getting to work?
There’s a chinese saying… something like ‘an egg cracked from within brings new life. an egg cracked from without is someone’s meal’. This is how social progress must work, it must arise organically from within following the natural development of that society advancing. It cannot be imposed from without via violent force, and those who claim to do so are looking for a meal.
obligatory Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing" mention:
it doesn’t materially matter directly to the situation but the analysis that gets us to our position and all the media literacy and so on are still relevant.
it’s potentially productive to tell libs who are mad at the democrats but don’t know anything besides nonviolent brunch marches that euromaidan was a coup, that western media was reporting on the nazi stuff and then stopped because they’re an extension of the government, that russia is in the right at the very least to protect the separatists from nazis, that they’d want canada to intervene on behalf of the PNW if those “greater idaho” nazis popped off shelling seattle for 7 years etc.
Yes, helping them see the bigger picture is beneficial - you are right. But I think right at the outset it’s important to determine whether you and the other person are even on the “same team” so to speak. If they can agree to opposing their own empire first and foremost, I’m willing to have further discussions later to get into the weeds of history and analysis and understand things better. However, if you cannot get them to agree to opposing American empire first and foremost, and they insist on continuing their chauvinistic attacks on “enemies” then this person is not on “your team”. You can never come to an understanding with such a person until you get them to accept the primary and first axiom, their revolutionary defeatist duty, that they are part of the evil empire and must oppose it first and foremost.
yeah. “look they did a fuckload of coups and ukraine was one of them” ought to be enough to get people on board with hating the empire, along with the invasion of iraq and a thousand other crimes against humanity.