Should be noted that Europe had commons for hundreds and hundreds of years before they all got enclosured and they managed them just fine with local-level spontaneous democracy.

Also the “tragedy of the commons” as we know it today was invented by a malthusian in the 1960s and everybody who invokes it as an argument against socialism ignores the part of the essay where the author advocates for central planning

In the end, really, the tragedy of the commons hides a far messy reality of primitive accumulation; mass pre-capitalist (feudal or before) dispossession of many property, communal, church, if not state, in favor of monopolized accumulation in the portfolio of the burghers, the forerunners of capital, as we know them.

When private property is so ingrained in your brain that you think communism is when more people have land.

The tragedy of commons straight up describes capitalism, profits are privatized and costs are socialized, how can people think this is a refutation of communism.

I think it’s a refutation of unregulated production & resource distribution in general.

In socialism, distribution would be handled by the state or locality, by the producers themselves, by a work coupon system, with money (a la market socialism), or theoretically in a sort of free-for-all all where people just request what they need. Only the last one is really implicated in a tragedy of the commons type scenario, with the money and work coupon systems potentially causing a smaller degree of that sort of an issue (as there would be less inequality, so less possibility of overproduction due to demand). Producers would, in that case, be encouraged to produce more to fill the increased demand, but there wouldn’t be a profit motive for doing so, and so a consumer-side tragedy of the commons is less likely. Also, producers’ access to resources would theoretically be more tightly regulated than in capitalism, but that isn’t necessarily the case.

In capitalism, distribution is dictated by the money system obviously and due the massive inequality there is a big disparity among people’s buying power - but more importantly companies consume the vast majority of resources and are encouraged to grow infinitely in a world of finite resources - creating demand where it doesn’t naturally exist to squeeze more profit out of folks’ savings, make them take on debt, or cause them to deprioritize other purchases.

In capitalism, people are not encouraged to consume infinitely more because it is not possible. You only have so many needs and so much income as an individual. The market invents new needs with advertising and such (you need makeup, you need the newest smartphone with ten cameras, you need glasses that let facebook spy on you), but consumers’ buying power is limited. People can’t really cause a market-wide tragedy of the commons, only companies can because they have the vast majority of the access to resources and the ability and motive (profit motive) to acquire them.

Tragedy of the commons, or some iteration of it, seems inevitable under capitalism, but is mitigated or eliminated under socialism

Elinor Claire “Lin” Ostrom (née Awan; August 7, 1933 – June 12, 2012) was an American political scientist and political economist[1][2][3] whose work was associated with New Institutional Economicsand the resurgence of political economy.[4]In 2009, she was awarded the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for her “analysis of economic governance, especially the commons”, which she shared with Oliver E. Williamson; she was the first woman to win the prize.[5]

While the original work on the tragedy of the commons concept suggested that all commons were doomed to failure, they remain important in the modern world. Work by later economists has found many examples of successful commons, and Elinor Ostrom won the Nobel Prize for analysing situations where they operate successfully.[17][14] For example, Ostrom found that grazing commons in the Swiss Alps have been run successfully for many hundreds of years by the farmers there.[18]

Ostrom’s law

Ostrom’s law is an adage that represents how Elinor Ostrom’s works in economicschallenge previous theoretical frameworks and assumptions about property, especially the commons. Ostrom’s detailed analyses of functional examples of the commons create an alternative view of the arrangement of resources that are both practically and theoretically possible. This eponymous law is stated succinctly by Lee Anne Fennell as:

A resource arrangement that works in practice can work in theory.[42]

When engaging in a rational discussion of facts and the other throws logic out the window… You have only yourself to blame for continuing as if the rules hadn’t changed. 😶

It’s about understanding the difference between the dictionary definitions of “communism” and “capitalism” and how they are actually practiced in the real life.

One of them is a system where the super rich hoard all the wealth and use the news media they own to keep the poor and middle classes fighting with each other while they, the rich, run off with all the f*cking money.

And the other one is a system where the super rich hoard all the wealth and use the news media they own to keep the poor and middle classes fighting with each other while they, the rich, run off with all the f*cking money.

“But wait a minute,” you ask. “Aren’t those the same thing” Yeah. Congratulations. You GOT it.