Shit, in my sleepy state I read the name wrong, the comment below is still a good comment, but not the one referenced.
I’m archiving the exchange here:
ambitious_hand:
Let’s be clear: Russia’s invasion of Ukraine meets the core definitions of settler colonialism, imperialism, and arguably genocide.
I don’t think you understand any of these terms, what right do you apply them?
The difference between Ukraine and Gaza is that there is no progressive faction in Ukraine, unlike with Palestine. Ukrainian nationalism after the fall of the Soviet Union has been devoid of any progressive content, with the current regime trying to distance Ukraine as much as possible from its socialist past, rehabilitating fascist collaborators like Bandera as national heroes, repressing all communist parties, and excluding the ethnic-Russian minority in the east, who are mostly working-class communities, from the national project by way of genocide, using Neo-Nazi paramilitaries to police their communities, banning parties that represent their interests, demoting the Russian language as an official language, and brutally cracking down on Odessa and Donbass when they rose up in defense of their democratic rights in 2014. Ukraine has been cannibalizing itself since it left the USSR, and Russia’s invasion has only sped up the process; it did not catalyze it.
Palestinian nationalism, even with Islamist parties being the strongest political faction in Gaza, is an expansive nationalist project that promotes civic participation within the whole of the Palestinian people against the genocidal imperialism of Israel; Islamists and communists are in military cooperation, and there is no ‘minority’ that is persecuted in any significant degree by any Palestinian factions. George Habash, for instance, came from a Christian family. The only obstacle to unity is the Fatah government in the West Bank, which are compradors for Israeli interests, but they have little in the way of nationalist justifications and are despised by the vast majority of Palestinians; their rule would quickly collapse if Israel did not prop them up
OP:
Just parroting Russian propaganda
another_commenter:
Propaganda doesn’t mean it’s false. Why is it that there are so many streets in Ukraine named after Waffen SS members?
ambitious_hand:
Just recently, they appointed a member of the Neo-Nazi Azov Brigade as the head of the Ukrainian Institute of National Memory, and this man had praised Hitler in the past and said that the Nazis gave Germans strong Christian ethics. These are the guys who are in charge of rewriting Ukrainian history and slandering the Soviet Union as “totalitarian”
The Ukraine situation is more complex. Eastern Ukrainians had their (overwhelmingly supported) president ousted in a Western-supported coup, then their language banned, then spent 8 years getting artillery shelled by Western Ukraine, the two peace agreements signed (by Zelenskyy who was elected on a peace platform) were then ignored by Ukraine largely because it would’ve let them vote on self-determination, then increasing talk of bringing in Western military support to crush the rebels (and consequently set up NATO bases next to Russia), then the parliamentary parties they support got banned, and so on.
So let’s not count Russia’s invasion and annexation as entirely unwanted by all East Ukrainians (or entirely unavoidable by Ukraine itself without very minor concessions). They have been utterly and undemocratically fucked over by Ukraine proper for over a decade. Ukraine didn’t entirely not choose this path, admittedly with scary Western pressure.
This doesn’t justify Russia’s actions, but let’s dismiss the myth that the war is borne entirely of some random desire to conquer by Putin, there are some very real factors and unnecessary suffering caused by Ukraine that preceded invasion. If Russia hadn’t invaded, we’d be seeing Ukraine, Azov, western arms and armies marching into the DPR/LPR and mass murdering plenty civilians, continuing to mass-oppress them, and setting up military bases there.
There’s more to be said about the worrying amount of Nazism, white supremacy, and anti-communism of the Ukrainian government, (see for example the UN votes on food rights and banning Nazi symbols, the US, Israel and Ukraine were basically the only ones to vote against). But these are the main points.
No war but class war, Russia 100% sucks, NATO 100% sucks, they’re both fascist, capitalist, and fucked up. Of the two options, it’s better for the stronger, wider, ‘more imperialist’ NATO/US Hegemony to lose instead of win.
Obviously the best outcome for leftists (and people in general) is for Russia and NATO to both equally lose and explode, but that’s just unlikely. So when we don’t want to emphatically chant for Russia’s loss, it’s just about the lesser of two evils.
Alarmed-Plan has the only good take here
It’s amazing how so many western “socialists” have their brains mushed so bad that they consider Russia as “post colonial” because of the USSR
Shit, in my sleepy state I read the name wrong, the comment below is still a good comment, but not the one referenced.
I’m archiving the exchange here:
Here is the referenced comment:
The Ukraine situation is more complex. Eastern Ukrainians had their (overwhelmingly supported) president ousted in a Western-supported coup, then their language banned, then spent 8 years getting artillery shelled by Western Ukraine, the two peace agreements signed (by Zelenskyy who was elected on a peace platform) were then ignored by Ukraine largely because it would’ve let them vote on self-determination, then increasing talk of bringing in Western military support to crush the rebels (and consequently set up NATO bases next to Russia), then the parliamentary parties they support got banned, and so on.
So let’s not count Russia’s invasion and annexation as entirely unwanted by all East Ukrainians (or entirely unavoidable by Ukraine itself without very minor concessions). They have been utterly and undemocratically fucked over by Ukraine proper for over a decade. Ukraine didn’t entirely not choose this path, admittedly with scary Western pressure.
This doesn’t justify Russia’s actions, but let’s dismiss the myth that the war is borne entirely of some random desire to conquer by Putin, there are some very real factors and unnecessary suffering caused by Ukraine that preceded invasion. If Russia hadn’t invaded, we’d be seeing Ukraine, Azov, western arms and armies marching into the DPR/LPR and mass murdering plenty civilians, continuing to mass-oppress them, and setting up military bases there.
There’s more to be said about the worrying amount of Nazism, white supremacy, and anti-communism of the Ukrainian government, (see for example the UN votes on food rights and banning Nazi symbols, the US, Israel and Ukraine were basically the only ones to vote against). But these are the main points.
No war but class war, Russia 100% sucks, NATO 100% sucks, they’re both fascist, capitalist, and fucked up. Of the two options, it’s better for the stronger, wider, ‘more imperialist’ NATO/US Hegemony to lose instead of win.
Obviously the best outcome for leftists (and people in general) is for Russia and NATO to both equally lose and explode, but that’s just unlikely. So when we don’t want to emphatically chant for Russia’s loss, it’s just about the lesser of two evils.
TL;DR: This meme from China: https://i.redd.it/nmi09294y5ub1.jpg
Oh right, that’s my throwaway Reddit account trying to be placatory, not a local of the sub, whee but sorry.
Ah, I knew it was too good not to be from a Hexbear
Link
There’s also this one by John_Jack_Reed
OP calling Ukraine a genocide comparable to Gaza and then complaining when they get called out
OP just sucks in general. Psychic damage ass thread.
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