Imagine equating a state and related movements that massively improved working-class people’s lives, including in terms of life expectancy, literacy rates, including by providing guaranteed housing, universal healthcare, fundamental women’s rights that are taken for granted today, and which not only fought off settler-colonialism in the form of the Lebensraum and the Holocaust, but also helped many other countries liberate themselves from European powers, with things like Germany under NSDAP, the US, Pissrael, and NATO in general.
Okay, so stop being a literal child and draw that thought out to its logical conclusions. I did that fifteen fucking years ago and realized, oh, hey, China isn’t Literally Evil for Doing Authoritarianism. They exist in a world with the fucking CIA, and all the feel good anarcho idealism in the world isn’t going to protect them from their literal fucking terrorism.
If you actually use your fucking brain you’d understand that it matters what “authority” is used “for.” Let me spoil it for you- using it to defend a revolution from internal and external reaction and imperialism IS GOOD, UNLESS YOU’RE A FUCKING REACTIONARY.
So you’re happy with a system that will revert to capitalism, your quibble is just over whether it’s taken apart by internal or external forces. Yeah, real coherent ideology you got there.
I’m not happy with a system that will revert to capitalism at all. I just think the material conditions are not always the same where anarchists won’t come ahead against the counter-revolution, and when they do, they won’t collapse through their own internal contradictions like ML regimes.
this is why people like me just laugh and call you a fucking child, because like, what are you even on? What does your revolutionary society look like? How is it organized?
You just out yourself as an ignorant, illiterate fuck who doesn’t realize that political anarchism is about the abolition of unjust and arbitrary hierarchies, not some idealist bullshit ass “we need a non hierarchical society” and a belief that you just get there by fucking magic. You are going to need to have a political organization of some kind, and guess what? The establishment of that is inherently fucking hierarchical!
What makes it good is not being a hierarchy based on fucking nobility or property ownership or oppressive class relations, dipshit. You are better off jerking yourself to death in your goon cave than chasing after some platonic ideal of A Lack of Hierarchy when here in the fucking real world the bourgoisie, fascists and cops are closing the noose around your neck and mine.
I’d tell you to grow the fuck up but I know you’re just going to keep crying about authority and hierarchy while every single fucking lying weaselly ass statement from your mouth assists the imperialists and the bourgeoisie, whether you know it or not
They’re not calling anarchists idiots. They’re explicitly referring to you who started being combative right out of the gate with this dumb fucking meme
Right, it’s not like MLs have been calling anarchists who don’t toe the line “infantile” (when not outright labeling them as liberals so as to have an excuse to purge them) since the times of Lenin. Totally isolated incident
Here’s an advice, If you don’t like this sort of of meme, maybe block anarchism comms outside of your instance instead of coming to in our space to antagonize and troll?
The USSR was also destroyed by encirclement and (nearly 100 years) of pressure from reactionaries.
But again, you and and the people on the comm you named after yourself are the ones hypocritically positing that any socialist project that fails is evidence that that project’s ideology inevitably leads to capitalist takeover. None of the “tankies” on Hexbear are saying that because it’s asinine, but if you actually believe it, to be ideologically consistent, would require condemning anarchism also.
It was literally the fastest growing economic system of all time. It went from wooden hand-drawn plows to spaceflight in a single generation, while defeating the most devastating invasion in human history. The nation once called “the India of Europe” became the first interplanetary civilization.
Then, after the entire collective might of the capitalist world had slaughtered dozens of millions of the bravest and most committed communists, it started falling apart because liberals took over. It was dissolved illegally, against the wishes of 70% of the population that voted in a referendum to keep the Union, in a bloody coup that killed over 2000 people fighting against its destruction. By the end of the 90s there had been 7-10 million excess deaths above the death rate of the 80s in Russia alone, making it one of the worst non-war human-caused humanitarian disasters of all time.
In short, the people of the USSR were revolutionaries and heroes, whereas you are a grotty little chauvinist from the imperial core who doesn’t want to improve the world, because if you did you would want to win, and if you wanted to win you would read history, and if you read history you would come to the same conclusion.
It was literally the fastest growing economic system of all time.
Yeah… I think Marxism-Leninism is the only ideology that dictates that you do colonialism against yourself.
first interplanetary civilization.
Lol! Been overdoing the sci-fi a bit, tankie?
the bravest and most committed communists
Just to clarify… you are not talking about the ones murdered on Stalin’s orders, right?
against the wishes of 70% of the population
Stop fooling yourself, tankie - the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.
In short, the people of the USSR were revolutionaries and heroes
Oh, really? So where did those liberals come from, then?
Yeah… I think Marxism-Leninism is the only ideology that dictates that you do colonialism against yourself.
You have never read any anti-colonial theory in your life and it shows. Fucking cracker “anarchists” I swear to god.
first interplanetary civilization.
Lol! Been overdoing the sci-fi a bit, tankie?
Yes the USSR was the first country to land a probe on a moon that wasn’t ours.
Just to clarify… you are not talking about the ones murdered on Stalin’s orders, right?
Source?
Stop fooling yourself, tankie - the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.
that still means that 70% were in favor of maintaining the USSR.
Oh, really? So where did those liberals come from, then?
Counterrevolutionaries will be something we have to contend with until we abolish capitalism globally.
Oh, look at the tankie puffing themselves up in an attempt to be intimidating.
Lol… puff to your heart’s content.
You have never read any anti-colonial
Oh look… a tankie that wants to play political tourist here in the extraction zone.
Yawn.
Yes the USSR was the first country
So that qualifies as an “interplanetary civilisation,” correct?
Source?
Tell me tankie… what was the fate of Konstantin Chelpan - you know, the lead designer of the team of engineers that created the V2 diesel engine? I assume a tankie like you would know what a T-34 is, right?
that still means that 70% were in favor of maintaining the USSR.
I hate having to repeat myself, but you tankies are quite hard of hearing, soooo… the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.
Counterrevolutionaries will be something we have to contend
It’s colonialism when you teach peasants how to read and give them telegraph poles and combine harvesters. You are a fucking stupid historically illiterate imperial core roleplayer piece of shit, the USSR was the first anticolonial nation in history, they fought on the morally correct side of nearly every anticolonial struggle in the world in the 20th century. As just even a single example, in 1961, the USSR used its veto powers in the UN to stop a forced ceasefire, allowing the Indians to invade and liberate the Portugese-held island of Goa, literally kicking out colonialists.
But it’s interesting that you seem to agree with the representative of Portugal that the USSR has ‘shamed the whole of mankind’.
The USSR created the first artifical satellite, put the first man in space, put the first woman in space, conducted the first spacewalk, landed the first spacecraft on the moon, landed the first spacecraft on another planet (Venus), built the first space station and landed the first spacecraft on Mars. The first black man in space was an Afro-Cuban man who went on in a Soviet rocket. Eight of the first ten nationalities in space were from the ‘eastern block’. ‘Astronaut Barbie’ was released by Mattel two years after the first Soviet woman went to space, and twenty years BEFORE the first US woman would.
Anyway I’m tired of reading your overwrought self-righteous self-important reddit liberal style of argumentation, all form and no substance, so just feel free to go read a book (assuming that’s something you’re actually capable of) and argue with that instead.
Are we talking about the peasants who democratically rejected your bolshevik clergy over and over again through the soviets back in 1919? Those peasants?
You are a fucking stupid historically illiterate imperial core roleplayer
Oh, look… a reactionary cosplaying as a leftst is calling others “imperialist.”
Yawn, tankie.
USSR was the first anticolonial nation
LOOOL! Tell it to the Finns, the Ukrainians and the Poles, tankie. I can almost hear their laughter all the way from over here.
the USSR used its veto powers
And the US used it’s military power to end Imperial Japan - I guess that makes the US “anit-colonial” now, too?
The USSR created the first artifical satellite, put the first man in space, put the first woman in space,
And? Are you perhaps suffering from some kind of insecurity, tankie?
If your ideology can’t stand up against outside forces then surely it’s just not a good ideology?
I was an anarchist myself for a long time, and I’m still really sympathetic to anarchist ideas and movements, but for me it’s just hard to see it as anything but utopianism when, despite all the good intention and internal consistency, it just can’t ever seem to survive contact with the real world.
Maybe if you weren’t a complete tool if the capitalist, you would understand this, but i cannot explain. Because it’s secret to people who paid attention through all of ‘capital’. Which you didn’t or obviously you’d agree with me and there would be no need to explain.
This is so disgustingly wrong it actually pisses me off. Our enemies were fascists and imperialists for the most part. Fuck dude Lenin even aided Makhno.
Yep, Russia did the thing.
In the meme image.
Authoritarian Communism broke, then it flipped back to Authoritarian Capitalism.
Yep, it had enemies.
Yep those enemies were very involved in helping it to break.
But this still is what happened.
Yep, it took a while.
Sorry the comic is ~80 years long?
Horrible line of reasoning. Anarchist projects have all reverted to capitalism much faster than the Soviet Union did.
Not without being conquered by fascists or red fash. I.e they’re internally consistent.
Imagine equating a state and related movements that massively improved working-class people’s lives, including in terms of life expectancy, literacy rates, including by providing guaranteed housing, universal healthcare, fundamental women’s rights that are taken for granted today, and which not only fought off settler-colonialism in the form of the Lebensraum and the Holocaust, but also helped many other countries liberate themselves from European powers, with things like Germany under NSDAP, the US, Pissrael, and NATO in general.
Okay, so stop being a literal child and draw that thought out to its logical conclusions. I did that fifteen fucking years ago and realized, oh, hey, China isn’t Literally Evil for Doing Authoritarianism. They exist in a world with the fucking CIA, and all the feel good anarcho idealism in the world isn’t going to protect them from their literal fucking terrorism.
If you actually use your fucking brain you’d understand that it matters what “authority” is used “for.” Let me spoil it for you- using it to defend a revolution from internal and external reaction and imperialism IS GOOD, UNLESS YOU’RE A FUCKING REACTIONARY.
You don’t need hierarchies to defend against imperialism
You sure you don’t need those hierarchies buddy? You suuuuuuuure?
Yep, I don’t want to help bring about a system which will only revert to capitalism on its own.
So you’re happy with a system that will revert to capitalism, your quibble is just over whether it’s taken apart by internal or external forces. Yeah, real coherent ideology you got there.
I’m not happy with a system that will revert to capitalism at all. I just think the material conditions are not always the same where anarchists won’t come ahead against the counter-revolution, and when they do, they won’t collapse through their own internal contradictions like ML regimes.
this is why people like me just laugh and call you a fucking child, because like, what are you even on? What does your revolutionary society look like? How is it organized?
You just out yourself as an ignorant, illiterate fuck who doesn’t realize that political anarchism is about the abolition of unjust and arbitrary hierarchies, not some idealist bullshit ass “we need a non hierarchical society” and a belief that you just get there by fucking magic. You are going to need to have a political organization of some kind, and guess what? The establishment of that is inherently fucking hierarchical!
What makes it good is not being a hierarchy based on fucking nobility or property ownership or oppressive class relations, dipshit. You are better off jerking yourself to death in your goon cave than chasing after some platonic ideal of A Lack of Hierarchy when here in the fucking real world the bourgoisie, fascists and cops are closing the noose around your neck and mine.
I’d tell you to grow the fuck up but I know you’re just going to keep crying about authority and hierarchy while every single fucking lying weaselly ass statement from your mouth assists the imperialists and the bourgeoisie, whether you know it or not
Tankies :“immature”, “anakiddie”, “liberal”, “reactionary”, “ignorant”, “waaaa”
Also tankies : “what about that left unity doe?”
A tale repeated since the nonsense that is “on authority”
But thanks for reinforcing to the audience why one just not align with (nevermind trust) MLs.
They’re not calling anarchists idiots. They’re explicitly referring to you who started being combative right out of the gate with this dumb fucking meme
Right, it’s not like MLs have been calling anarchists who don’t toe the line “infantile” (when not outright labeling them as liberals so as to have an excuse to purge them) since the times of Lenin. Totally isolated incident
Here’s an advice, If you don’t like this sort of of meme, maybe block anarchism comms outside of your instance instead of coming to in our space to antagonize and troll?
the only good revolution is the one that fails
The USSR was also destroyed by encirclement and (nearly 100 years) of pressure from reactionaries.
But again, you and and the people on the comm you named after yourself are the ones hypocritically positing that any socialist project that fails is evidence that that project’s ideology inevitably leads to capitalist takeover. None of the “tankies” on Hexbear are saying that because it’s asinine, but if you actually believe it, to be ideologically consistent, would require condemning anarchism also.
Deeply unserious
Yeah, right… it had absolutely nothing to do with the batshit-insane economic and social blundering of the CPSU.
Nothing at all.
It was literally the fastest growing economic system of all time. It went from wooden hand-drawn plows to spaceflight in a single generation, while defeating the most devastating invasion in human history. The nation once called “the India of Europe” became the first interplanetary civilization.
Then, after the entire collective might of the capitalist world had slaughtered dozens of millions of the bravest and most committed communists, it started falling apart because liberals took over. It was dissolved illegally, against the wishes of 70% of the population that voted in a referendum to keep the Union, in a bloody coup that killed over 2000 people fighting against its destruction. By the end of the 90s there had been 7-10 million excess deaths above the death rate of the 80s in Russia alone, making it one of the worst non-war human-caused humanitarian disasters of all time.
In short, the people of the USSR were revolutionaries and heroes, whereas you are a grotty little chauvinist from the imperial core who doesn’t want to improve the world, because if you did you would want to win, and if you wanted to win you would read history, and if you read history you would come to the same conclusion.
Yeah… I think Marxism-Leninism is the only ideology that dictates that you do colonialism against yourself.
Lol! Been overdoing the sci-fi a bit, tankie?
Just to clarify… you are not talking about the ones murdered on Stalin’s orders, right?
Stop fooling yourself, tankie - the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.
Oh, really? So where did those liberals come from, then?
You mean… unlike you?
Motherfucker okay this is where I get heated.
You have never read any anti-colonial theory in your life and it shows. Fucking cracker “anarchists” I swear to god.
Yes the USSR was the first country to land a probe on a moon that wasn’t ours.
Source?
Counterrevolutionaries will be something we have to contend with until we abolish capitalism globally.
You want to lose?
Oh, look at the tankie puffing themselves up in an attempt to be intimidating.
Lol… puff to your heart’s content.
Oh look… a tankie that wants to play political tourist here in the extraction zone.
Yawn.
So that qualifies as an “interplanetary civilisation,” correct?
Tell me tankie… what was the fate of Konstantin Chelpan - you know, the lead designer of the team of engineers that created the V2 diesel engine? I assume a tankie like you would know what a T-34 is, right?
I hate having to repeat myself, but you tankies are quite hard of hearing, soooo… the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.
True. You are still here, after all.
It’s colonialism when you teach peasants how to read and give them telegraph poles and combine harvesters. You are a fucking stupid historically illiterate imperial core roleplayer piece of shit, the USSR was the first anticolonial nation in history, they fought on the morally correct side of nearly every anticolonial struggle in the world in the 20th century. As just even a single example, in 1961, the USSR used its veto powers in the UN to stop a forced ceasefire, allowing the Indians to invade and liberate the Portugese-held island of Goa, literally kicking out colonialists.
But it’s interesting that you seem to agree with the representative of Portugal that the USSR has ‘shamed the whole of mankind’.
The USSR created the first artifical satellite, put the first man in space, put the first woman in space, conducted the first spacewalk, landed the first spacecraft on the moon, landed the first spacecraft on another planet (Venus), built the first space station and landed the first spacecraft on Mars. The first black man in space was an Afro-Cuban man who went on in a Soviet rocket. Eight of the first ten nationalities in space were from the ‘eastern block’. ‘Astronaut Barbie’ was released by Mattel two years after the first Soviet woman went to space, and twenty years BEFORE the first US woman would.
Anyway I’m tired of reading your overwrought self-righteous self-important reddit liberal style of argumentation, all form and no substance, so just feel free to go read a book (assuming that’s something you’re actually capable of) and argue with that instead.
Are we talking about the peasants who democratically rejected your bolshevik clergy over and over again through the soviets back in 1919? Those peasants?
Oh, look… a reactionary cosplaying as a leftst is calling others “imperialist.”
Yawn, tankie.
LOOOL! Tell it to the Finns, the Ukrainians and the Poles, tankie. I can almost hear their laughter all the way from over here.
And the US used it’s military power to end Imperial Japan - I guess that makes the US “anit-colonial” now, too?
And? Are you perhaps suffering from some kind of insecurity, tankie?
Which one, tankie? This one?
Disengage
Internally consistent, externally non-existent
If your ideology can’t stand up against outside forces then surely it’s just not a good ideology?
I was an anarchist myself for a long time, and I’m still really sympathetic to anarchist ideas and movements, but for me it’s just hard to see it as anything but utopianism when, despite all the good intention and internal consistency, it just can’t ever seem to survive contact with the real world.
So…
Well at least communism has consistently survived contact with the real world.
Oh, wait.
Well no, see, those dont count, because reasons.
Maybe if you weren’t a complete tool if the capitalist, you would understand this, but i cannot explain. Because it’s secret to people who paid attention through all of ‘capital’. Which you didn’t or obviously you’d agree with me and there would be no need to explain.
Yeah… the main one being the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
This is so disgustingly wrong it actually pisses me off. Our enemies were fascists and imperialists for the most part. Fuck dude Lenin even aided Makhno.
What are you going to do about it, tankie?
There is no “our” here, tankie - you are the enemy here.
Really? Is that why the Bolsheviks perpetrated mass-slaughter in Ukraine to repress the Makhnovists? To “aid” them?