I need to get offline because it literally frustrates me to see there’s struggle sessions over Mamdani.
People dogmatically hate electoralism but llike 99% of online western leftists have zero investment in violence. So when people say that leftists offer zero vision for the future this is what they mean, there is fucking nothing being proposed except for cynicism and dooming, sitting on your ass to do nothing. It’d be one thing if there were talks about military training or even stochastic terrorism against chuds but it’s all about ‘organizing’ to essentially form the very protests that we end up calling ineffective lib shit. I’m sorry for the rant but I’m losing my fucking mind and any faith in everyone, to the point where I think these spaces are just a psyop meant to push people into passivity
It’s also possible to chew gum and walk at the same time. Investing some time in electoralism doesn’t mean other tactics become impossible. Short term gains in electoralism also show people who are on the fence that the “socialist” label gets stuff done.
If you live in NYC go and full force and join Zohran’s campaign. When you get there, no matter what happens, you will findsome other cool people including the other Hexbearians (even if you don’t explicitly know that, everyone is gonna be there). If he libs out or gets ratfucked you and your new friends can figure out what the next move is.
You’re saying I should quit PSL and support a DemSucc??
No, ignore this, it isn’t for you
my commie militia is too underground for people to know about it but we are about to do some really cool stuff be this is just draining energy back to electoral liberalism
Use the recruiting opportunity that the campaign is offering, or just ignore my post, enjoy doing cool very illegal things
I want to take a principled stance against electoralism and…
Unless you have a literally party line on the topic, you’re doing inverse-adventurism. If you have a party line you don’t need to hear what I’m saying in my post
I don’t live in NYC
Then figure out what the equivalent candidate or cause is and join up, even if it’s succdem. Other option is joining PSL (or maybe another similar party idk). if you do that, you can tell me what I should be doing instead.
I used the quotes to format potential counterarguments that I’d expect to run into among our comrades so I can respond to them (though it’s really just a strawman for me to knock down)
I hope it’s obvious to u/goodguywithacat in particular that my response is supporting their post
Nah no need to apologize, glad we cleared it up. I’ll call this one “RedSailsFan got a bit thrown off by my formatting” unless the couple dozen people who up voted me were doing it cause they misunderstood too? (You all speak now pls! (They’re not gonna read this))
Excellent take. From my point of view, phrasing it as kind as I can: Lots of people on the left need to toughen up a bit mentally & physically within their means to do so, myself included.
I’m feeling the same way ATM. I’m tired of going to small, useless PSL protests in my town. There’s still no motion on anti ICE protests except for the actual raza that are on the ground tracking and defending against it. “White America” (libs) seems content enough to just watch this shit play out, all while the ICE budget is going to balloon once BBB passes.
People want some organic armed resistance to just pop up but the class consciousness is still non existent in most sectors of our society. Electoralism won’t bring us socialism, but I do hope that a wave of electoralism and DSA campaigns with a few more Mamdani’s (candidates that are principled and strong communicators) combined with the ratfucking from both parties that comes after will begin to wake people up. And eventually they will be fed up enough and persecuted enough, and accepting of violence directed at the bourgeoisie, that an actual revolution can begin to occur.
I’ve suggested that people here dooming join an org. I offer to help them find one and explain how to do it and what to expect.
To my knowledge, nobody has joined an org as a result of this. Or told me they did. Or even expressed any real interest in doing so.
The organizations are all around us. They are (usually) recruiting. There are communist ones, straight-up MLs with cool people ready to onboard. They organize actions, build coalitions, do political education.
It is not that “the left” has nothing to offer or do. It is that only a small minority of people in the imperial core, even self-proclaimed communists, actually take the opportunity to join an org and do work. Starting that process takes just a few hours. Most prefer to vent frustrations to the exclusion of doing any of this. This site is largely premised on that venting, historically in a way that gets pretty toxic towards one another.
Re: Mamdani, he will not only be ratfucked by Dems et al, he will also inevitably be opportunist. His org is 80% opportunists and it is the nature of US electoralism to “compromise” (clam up / mollify reactionary positions) to get votes and avoid getting shot. So if anyone is in an org, just remember to be strategic about endorsements and what future statements may beed to be made and actions need to be taken if too much support is given. For example, never ever ever ever trust a DemSoc to take InfoSec or OpSec seriously. Do not give them rour real names. That would be a pointless risk. And so on.
I need to get offline because it literally frustrates me to see there’s struggle sessions over Mamdani.
People dogmatically hate electoralism but llike 99% of online western leftists have zero investment in violence. So when people say that leftists offer zero vision for the future this is what they mean, there is fucking nothing being proposed except for cynicism and dooming, sitting on your ass to do nothing. It’d be one thing if there were talks about military training or even stochastic terrorism against chuds but it’s all about ‘organizing’ to essentially form the very protests that we end up calling ineffective lib shit. I’m sorry for the rant but I’m losing my fucking mind and any faith in everyone, to the point where I think these spaces are just a psyop meant to push people into passivity
It’s also possible to chew gum and walk at the same time. Investing some time in electoralism doesn’t mean other tactics become impossible. Short term gains in electoralism also show people who are on the fence that the “socialist” label gets stuff done.
If you live in NYC go and full force and join Zohran’s campaign. When you get there, no matter what happens, you will findsome other cool people including the other Hexbearians (even if you don’t explicitly know that, everyone is gonna be there). If he libs out or gets ratfucked you and your new friends can figure out what the next move is.
No, ignore this, it isn’t for you
Use the recruiting opportunity that the campaign is offering, or just ignore my post, enjoy doing cool very illegal things
Unless you have a literally party line on the topic, you’re doing inverse-adventurism. If you have a party line you don’t need to hear what I’m saying in my post
Then figure out what the equivalent candidate or cause is and join up, even if it’s succdem. Other option is joining PSL (or maybe another similar party idk). if you do that, you can tell me what I should be doing instead.
deleted by creator
None the “quotes” are from their comment, if that is what you’re suggesting?
??? who and why were you quoting then???
The reader of my post, basically
I used the quotes to format potential counterarguments that I’d expect to run into among our comrades so I can respond to them (though it’s really just a strawman for me to knock down)
I hope it’s obvious to u/goodguywithacat in particular that my response is supporting their post
ah when i do that i usually put like “preempting arguments” or something like that to make that clear, sorry for my confusion
Nah no need to apologize, glad we cleared it up. I’ll call this one “RedSailsFan got a bit thrown off by my formatting” unless the couple dozen people who up voted me were doing it cause they misunderstood too? (You all speak now pls! (They’re not gonna read this))
…aaaaand POST!
Excellent take. From my point of view, phrasing it as kind as I can: Lots of people on the left need to toughen up a bit mentally & physically within their means to do so, myself included.
I’m feeling the same way ATM. I’m tired of going to small, useless PSL protests in my town. There’s still no motion on anti ICE protests except for the actual raza that are on the ground tracking and defending against it. “White America” (libs) seems content enough to just watch this shit play out, all while the ICE budget is going to balloon once BBB passes.
People want some organic armed resistance to just pop up but the class consciousness is still non existent in most sectors of our society. Electoralism won’t bring us socialism, but I do hope that a wave of electoralism and DSA campaigns with a few more Mamdani’s (candidates that are principled and strong communicators) combined with the ratfucking from both parties that comes after will begin to wake people up. And eventually they will be fed up enough and persecuted enough, and accepting of violence directed at the bourgeoisie, that an actual revolution can begin to occur.
I’ve suggested that people here dooming join an org. I offer to help them find one and explain how to do it and what to expect.
To my knowledge, nobody has joined an org as a result of this. Or told me they did. Or even expressed any real interest in doing so.
The organizations are all around us. They are (usually) recruiting. There are communist ones, straight-up MLs with cool people ready to onboard. They organize actions, build coalitions, do political education.
It is not that “the left” has nothing to offer or do. It is that only a small minority of people in the imperial core, even self-proclaimed communists, actually take the opportunity to join an org and do work. Starting that process takes just a few hours. Most prefer to vent frustrations to the exclusion of doing any of this. This site is largely premised on that venting, historically in a way that gets pretty toxic towards one another.
Re: Mamdani, he will not only be ratfucked by Dems et al, he will also inevitably be opportunist. His org is 80% opportunists and it is the nature of US electoralism to “compromise” (clam up / mollify reactionary positions) to get votes and avoid getting shot. So if anyone is in an org, just remember to be strategic about endorsements and what future statements may beed to be made and actions need to be taken if too much support is given. For example, never ever ever ever trust a DemSoc to take InfoSec or OpSec seriously. Do not give them rour real names. That would be a pointless risk. And so on.
We don’t talk about such things on the internet if such things were being discussed.
Yeah, that’s totally behind the reluctance to talk about such topics
Are you saying that people don’t talk about such topics