who will survive longer: me or the american state (i will)
A Bluesky comment
Are they sending a representative to Gavin Newsom’s podcast so he can agree with them?
number of days until hexbear appears in the congressional record just ticked down again. nazis get
Nazi shit
come at me idgaf“Trantifa”? God damn our enemies are morons.
It also sounds awesome
Killing Kirk really did just speed up this violent crackdown on the left into overdrive.
Did it though? If Kirk wasn’t assassinated, they would have just invented a pretense. IMO they’re just doing what they have planned for all this time.
It’s both. This is what they wanted to do anyway. The plan was clearly already mostly drafted and agreed to. But they needed the right moment. The murder was that moment.
If the same murder happened in 72 days, these things happening now wouldn’t be happening until 72 days from now.
But they needed the right moment. The murder was that moment.
That’s kinda my point though: they could have simply manufactured “the right moment”. Hell, they could have even presenting literally nothing as the right moment. They have control over the propaganda machines.
If the same murder happened in 72 days, these things happening now wouldn’t be happening until 72 days from now.
Yeah I’m not with you on the timeline here. Maybe a week at best. The capitalists are quickly remembering that what they can do to us in their system is functionally independent from the will of its subjects.
for all we know, they did manufacture this, or this kid is a patsy and there was an israeli sniper or some wild shit, who knows!
What we do know is that something happening was inevitable
If they could just manufacture the right moment at any time, why didn’t it happen the first week of Trump’s term in Jan or, at least, in Feb? They waited for some reason. What is the reason?
IMO there are three convincing explanations:
- Logistics - for example, it takes time to hire the people the government needs to have to perform domestic oppression at an increased scale, i.e. they need more cops and ICE agents. And they probably have identified that some things need to be done in sequences (or more generically there’s a graph-like dependence), so they can’t just go immediately to the worst possible things.
- Lack of collective vision. Simply, the people currently in power are more self-interested than they are interested in their collective political project.
- They probably still do think that there is something they can do that would push Americans over the edge…but they’re slowly realizing that’s only vanishingly the case. I.e. I don’t reject that Americans can literally be pushed into action, but it would take a severe perturbation of comfort for Americans to actually get moving. Frankly…an unrealistic perturbation.
I brought up disaster capitalism in a different thread last night and I think that’s the ticket for this. It’s not that they were sitting around waiting on a moment. You don’t waste time trying to predict moments like this. You maintain a relative state of readiness for anything and when something like this happens, you pounce and milk it for all you can. Even they don’t know what affordances Kirk’s death will provide. They’re experimenting. That’s why it’s quickly morphing into this weird catch-all cause. Somehow military recruitment, late night TV, transgender rights, AI grifts, and social media are all tied into this. The somehow is that there are different groups who have different goals and interests beyond the general goal of maintaining capital control. They’re all trying to figure out what this will let them get away with. Can we re-align late night TV so our constituents aren’t hearing how shit we are? Maybe. Can we take a moment to stomp on trans rights some more? We’ll try. Can we get some more police drones that scan public events? Might as well, it’ll stop another Charlie from happening.
The dude’s corpse is being divided up and mashed into oil for all these different machines. It is related even though it’s not actually related, if that makes sense. They weren’t waiting on a moment and they also aren’t able to do it without a moment because opportunism requires an opportunity.
You maintain a relative state of readiness for anything and when something like this happens, you pounce and milk it for all you can.
In Kwame Ture’s autobiography, he has a quote from an organizer who said that you stay ready so you don’t have to get ready. It’s the same exact thing that orgs need to completely internalize. If you’re waiting for the revolutionary momentTM to come before acting, you will be nowhere close to seizing the opportunity when it actually happens. The George Floyd uprising was a revolutionary moment. And absolutely no org was even close to turning that opportunity into something far greater than what it turned out. Now imagine if there was an org on par with the BPP at its height in 2020 that simultaneously had the ability to wage war against the pigs on top of providing political education that inoculate the masses from the cringey recuperation shit that the Democrats successfully pulled off.
The Epstein connection. That story, whatever the libs tried to rile up before, is well buried now. Nobody’s gonna remember it anymore. Trump got the distraction he needed.
There was nothing happening with Epstein before Kirk was shot. We had gotten to the point where the only thing was a release of unspecified documents, which was a long shot. This is months after the FBI and AG had already gotten hold of it all and redacted it or destroyed stuff. The release was halted in the House before Kirk was shot. The Senate halted release 3 hours after Kirk was shot. Even if the docs were released, then what? Who is going to arrest Trump? Who is going to prosecute him? The AG that helped him redact the docs? His FBI lapdog?
I’m Epstein-pilled but it just doesn’t connect for me. Even the news had mostly stopped covering it. There was supposed to be this big reckoning when Congress came back into session this month but it didn’t happen. They came back and blocked the release of the files. Trump simply wasn’t in any political or legal danger. I too thought he would be for a minute but then reality hits. We all moved on from JFK and 9/11 too.
The capitalists never forgot it. They didn’t need to remember.
I agree with you IF these people are on a tight timeline. I am not sure that they are. They have 3 more years based on the political cycle. But, this could be a timeline driven by the midterms, which is reasonable.
It could also be a timeline driven by foreign actors, or by economic forces.
My sense, though, is that things are not as well coordinated as the Truman Show and instead they make plans for various things and execute them when the appropriate trigger arrives.
Honestly, it could be true that both a) they got Kirk killed and b) they were waiting for it to happen before acting. They have a vast network of decrentalized right wing peppers and could have easily seeded this action out to them and just waited until it happened.
If the same murder happened in 72 days, these things happening now wouldn’t be happening until 72 days from now.
disagree.
some other shit would have been an opportunity sooner than that. or they’d just make something up or they’d just do it.
I mean, sure there would probably be an event earlier than 72 days later. It could have been a different event though.
Let’s not forget this event had nothing to do with transgender people. They were going to do this regardless.
As I said. They had plans already. They were just waiting for a spark. Any spark.
We’re spending a lot of time here trying to figure out if it was the toaster or coffee maker which started the fire while ignoring the gas leak. At a certain point the situation becomes so volatile a fart can set it off.
I think maybe 20 or 30 percent of this stuff would have happened by now, but this has given them an excuse to accelerate
I feel everyone is forgetting the detrans neonazi school shooter. Like they were talking about a lot if this stuff already in response to that. This was just an even better excuse.
Funny thing is it’s a worse excuse becauae the killer is cis, but it’s a flashier headline because it was a celeb that got killed
While it’s true they would still find something, what the something is still affects how the general public feels. They’ll be a little more ok with it than if the justification were just obviously false, but much less than if it had been a universally beloved figure who was killed.
They’ll be a little more ok with it than if the justification were just obviously false, but much less than if it had been a universally beloved figure who was killed.
I gotta be real with you: I don’t trust Americans anymore to be like that. Simple as that. We have completely lost our fucking minds.
I’m not American so I have to defer to your judgement, but is this really true of the broader public? Obviously yes die hard trump supporters are gonna be freaks about it, but just average people?
My view is that average Americans are comfortable letting it happen. Like the “treats-pilled” analysis often brought up here is IMO a 1-1 representation of how the average American operates. But I’ve always been a pessimist so maybe take my analysis with a grain of salt.
I guess so
Like not to be incessant here, but IMO the reason this is happening isn’t because of Kirk’s killing or anything consequential to the fascists themselves or the government, but simply because leftists, LGBTQ people, POC, disabled people, the poor, etc., continue to merely exist while the fascists are still in power. And as long as liberals try to politely share the stage with the fascists, fascist violence will continue to destroy us.
So far, the biggest detriment I see to organizing the left in the US in a socialist manner is foreign policy. It seems really hard to get US people to understand it. It takes way too much reading of news and knowledge of history. Not to mention, being in the imperial core, US foreign policy mostly benefits them.
I get that
The Charlie Kirk assassination is becoming our Reichstag fire. This is just the dumbest timeline.
The only thing I can say for sure is it’s not enough for one fascist to fall.
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“terrorist” has turned into a meaningless buzz word, like “woke”
The boy who cried wolf.The Trump who cried terrorist.
I literally warned about this before the election, only to be ridiculed by half of the users here.
People here really have no idea how fast fascism can take hold of a society.
Kamala Harris would have done this as well, she just would have blamed bipartisanship
Your mistake continues to be believing Biden would have slowed down anything in this regard.
Also you can take your L for supporting the person who started the genocide if that makes you feel better about being “correct”.
I never said anything about “supporting” Biden or Harris. I am very well aware of the genocide argument and that these are the ghouls here.
Just the other day, someone argued with me that Trump’s accelerationism would somehow be beneficial to the left for recruitment, because people/libs are easier to be radicalized under Trump while they love to brunch under Democrats.
Yes, for a prepared left that has the capacity to take advantage of the situation. But the American left is NOT prepared. They need time to organize. And 4 years is 4 years.
Also, if your strategy to rally people to your cause relies on minorities paying the price (and perhaps even with their lives), then you have a serious problem.
I never said anything about “supporting” Biden or Harris.
Telling people to vote for someone is like the dictionary definition of support. I legitimately don’t understand what y’all think “support” means. Wanting to suck them off? Treating everything they say as gospel? Thinking they’ll go to heaven in the afterlife?
I genuinely don’t know, because in my book, supporting someone is when you provide them with, you know, support. For example, in the form of a vote or in the form of trying to convince others to vote for them.
What you described is a legitimate approach - it’s the Trotskyists view of the world.
The Trots (Chen Duxiu faction) welcomed and encouraged the Imperial Japanese invasion because they believed that the upheaval and destruction caused by the Japanese army will provoke the masses to rise up and overthrow the bourgeois Nationalist government.
This earned them the “Han traitor” moniker (汉奸) by Mao, perhaps the worst insult you can ever receive from him.
Despite the Nationalists murdering hundreds of thousands of communists just the years prior, Mao decided that a united front with the Nationalists against the Japanese invaders was still the correct path to take. And guess what? It turned out to be beneficial for the Communist Party, who would eventually overthrow the Nationalists during the Liberation War despite being massively outnumbered and outgunned.
This is why Mao is so revered in China, despite his mistakes and flaws. His ability to understand the gravity of the situation and see the entire picture in a grand scheme of world events remain unparalleled to this day.
If the Trots have had their way, China would have succumbed and turned into a Japanese colony. It’s very important to realize that if things had taken just a slightly different turn, the communists would not have won in China.
No one is welcoming this fascist train. Like, I understand your disdain for the American left but the American left is not cheering this on in the hopes of some glorious revolution.
What we are doing is sharpening our knives as best we can because this is going to get hot fast.
I welcome the democrats to act as your nationalists and actually put some metal into the fight. At which point, I will side with them.
The reason that there was an alliance to be formed at all was that the communists existed as their own, separate political party.
The relationship between Mao and the nationalists, and the lessons we can take from it, are more complex than this “always capitulate to the lesser evil” nonsense. There were several times when the two sides formed a united front and several times that such agreements fell apart or were betrayed. If the lesson from Mao is simply capitulation to the lesser evil, Mao would have just joined the KMT and abandoned any sort of radical positions to that might have caused contention.
Of course, accelerationism is stupid nonsense as it always has been.
Edit to add a thought: the communists at that time had just endured the long march, and the leadership was tested and battle-hardened. When they said “revolution later” they meant “revolution later.” In contrast, in Europe, there were a bunch of nominally socialist parties and when they said “revolution later,” they meant, “revolution never,” because they were full of opportunists. Imagine if the SDP in Germany was like, “Well, it finally happened, the conditions are right for revolution so we’re doing a revolution now.” No, if you want a temporary alliance with the Democrats, it needs to be actually temporary, with a clearly set objective and end conditions. Otherwise it’s just liberalism with extra steps.
Just the other day, someone argued with me that Trump’s accelerationism would somehow be beneficial to the left for recruitment, because people/libs are easier to be radicalized under Trump while they love to brunch under Democrats.
It’s not wrong to say that this acceleration from the government creates new opportunities for leftist organizing. That’s not saying Trump is good, it’s just an assessment of the situation. And I see it borne out all the time, the interest in
has grown by an order of magnitude since his election. We have to deal with the ups and downs of where we’re at right now.Yeah I reject the idea that 4 years of Biden would give the left “time to organize,” democrats are counter revolutionary and possible organizing subjects tune out out of necessity/go back to brunch once blue is back in office. 2020 had simultaneous crises and they were mollified by liberal cooptation. Families separated, kids in cages, police murder, genocide in Palestine, nobody flocked to those banners because Biden was in charge. Is this accelerationism? It seems like an evaluation of reality
I’m not even making a comparative Dems vs Reps claim and I’m certainly not saying we wanted Trump so that we could do accelerationism. I’m hust saying that under Trump, popular discontent is substantially heightened, classs consciousness is on the rise, and radical organizing is quickly getting bigger and stronger. Things are accelerating in both repression and resistance. Being prepared starts with having that understanding.
Yeah nobody here was arguing Trump would be better, just that it was an inevitability and an opportunity
And not a done deal, either! This is an opportunity, but it’s a narrow one that the movement could totally fumble or that maybe never fully materializes. But the chance is there and we have to act on it. Moralizing about what might have been under Kamala, or maybe we could be more prepared, or whatever - irrelevant. We are Marxists. We work from the real material conditions that currently exist.
4 years to prepare? Not even 400 years are enough with objectives like radicalizing liberals. The working class needs to self-organize and link up, radicalizing liberals usually means convincing middle class Democrat voters to larp as socdems. Maybe they’ll even start a party to wreck working class organizing and end up endorsing the Dems anyway in the next elections. And as soon as the “imminent threat to democracy” is gone these radicalized liberals who never stopped being property owners, small time bosses etc will go straight back to business as usual and try their best to be good capitalist career politicians.
It’s already been beneficial for recruitment. 40 rifle holders at the last range day.
I think it is entirely reasonable to think that a Democratic administration would not be escalating this hard, this quickly. This is insane and terrifying on a level beyond anything the government has ever done with trans people, in recent memory.
Yeah, they were still gonna shift into a transphobic direction - but that would’ve taken a much longer time, and personally I value even months before oppression escalates, and I honestly don’t know if they would’ve ever gone this far. I think at worst it would’ve ended up like Labour transphobia in the UK, this is beyond even that by a significant margin and presents a severe material threat to every trans person in the country.
Maybe it’ll be better that it escalates this much this fast - maybe it’ll be too much too soon and they’re forced to back off on trans issues, whereas with the Democrats maybe it could’ve been slipped through gradually as ‘normal’ Maybe. That’s not a certainty, I can’t blame anyone for wanting fascistic oppression to be enacted slower. Especially being one of their first targets, I am savoring every single day without some kind of escalation.
While i do agree somewhat, it was Biden and Harris’ choice not to pivot on Gaza and not do economic populist messaging. This site had no power to influence the election.
They sent Bill Clinton and Josh Shapiro to Michigan to talk about “Judea and Samaria”. Every half decent messaging like calling Republicans weird or price controls were immediately abandoned.
I am well aware of all that. I was pushing back against an increasingly prevalent idea that Trump, or the crumbling state of the empire, would be good for the left.
Not if you don’t even have an organized left in America.
We’ll see how the left organizes as ICE is openly kidnapping, torturing and deporting minorities under broad daylight.
We’ll see how the left is going to organize as trans people are increasingly stripped of their rights and face open persecution by fascist thugs.
We’ll see if this accelerationism is truly beneficial to the left.
As I said to another user here, if your plan to rally people to your cause relies on minorities paying the price, then perhaps there is a serious problem here.
Not to rehash the points already made about accelerationism. What would an ideal scenario look like for left organizing, given what’s been said? It seems that the best case is a false threat, something that radicalizes liberals to the left while not actually being that detrimental. A political vaccine. One could argue that Trump is that, an incompetent fascist who despite being actually destructive sometimes, mostly does things for show. The net effect being a political awakening for certain liberals who would have never got there under the incremental escalation that Biden maintained.
Unfortunately every time a Dem is in office it has a chilling effect on worker’s left-radicalization and the only people getting fired up are the right. The normies feel like the urgency is gone and go back to brunch. Meanwhile we have an existential candle burning at both ends with climate change. Would 4 years of blue genocide gotten people out in the streets or just put us 4 years closer to half the US population needing to flee wet bulbs and rising seas?
Stay safe comrades. My heart aches for all of you
i think they’re trying to push us to crash out (in the classical sense) and give them evidence for their trans shooter psyop
If only we voted blue :(
“The Trump administration first created the NVE designation earlier this year to replace the Biden-era label “Anti-Authority and Anti-Government Violent Extremists” (AGAAVE), created to categorize January 6 rioters and other right-wing groups.”
AGAAVE LMAOOO
So. Functionally, what will that mean for us? Like, will this be some kind of niding-esque thing where anyone can report us for being trans and we get arrested? Or a busted taillight thing, where they probably wont pull you over for it but if youre doing 45 in a 30 theyll pull you over and add a busted taillight charge to the ticket? Or something else?
Basically, how fucked are we if this happens?
Edit: niding is probably the wrong word, since they were more outside the law.
Exactly, it’s gonna be a multiplier if you get caught up in anything else. The busted tail light is a great analogy
