• sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 days ago

      Yep, Russia did the thing.

      In the meme image.

      Authoritarian Communism broke, then it flipped back to Authoritarian Capitalism.

      Yep, it had enemies.

      Yep those enemies were very involved in helping it to break.

      But this still is what happened.

      Yep, it took a while.

      Sorry the comic is ~80 years long?

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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          3 days ago

          Not without being conquered by fascists or red fash. I.e they’re internally consistent.

          • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            2 days ago

            Imagine equating a state and related movements that massively improved working-class people’s lives, including in terms of life expectancy, literacy rates, including by providing guaranteed housing, universal healthcare, fundamental women’s rights that are taken for granted today, and which not only fought off settler-colonialism in the form of the Lebensraum and the Holocaust, but also helped many other countries liberate themselves from European powers, with things like Germany under NSDAP, the US, Pissrael, and NATO in general.

          • LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins [none/use name]@hexbear.netBanned from community
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            3 days ago

            Okay, so stop being a literal child and draw that thought out to its logical conclusions. I did that fifteen fucking years ago and realized, oh, hey, China isn’t Literally Evil for Doing Authoritarianism. They exist in a world with the fucking CIA, and all the feel good anarcho idealism in the world isn’t going to protect them from their literal fucking terrorism.

            If you actually use your fucking brain you’d understand that it matters what “authority” is used “for.” Let me spoil it for you- using it to defend a revolution from internal and external reaction and imperialism IS GOOD, UNLESS YOU’RE A FUCKING REACTIONARY.

              • ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]@hexbear.netBanned from community
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                2 days ago

                You don’t need hierarchies to defend against imperialism

                Anarchist projects have all reverted to capitalism much faster than the Soviet Union did.

                Not without being conquered by fascists or red fash.

                You sure you don’t need those hierarchies buddy? You suuuuuuuure?

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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                  2 days ago

                  Yep, I don’t want to help bring about a system which will only revert to capitalism on its own.

                  • ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]@hexbear.netBanned from community
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                    2 days ago

                    So you’re happy with a system that will revert to capitalism, your quibble is just over whether it’s taken apart by internal or external forces. Yeah, real coherent ideology you got there.

              • LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins [none/use name]@hexbear.netBanned from community
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                2 days ago

                this is why people like me just laugh and call you a fucking child, because like, what are you even on? What does your revolutionary society look like? How is it organized?

                You just out yourself as an ignorant, illiterate fuck who doesn’t realize that political anarchism is about the abolition of unjust and arbitrary hierarchies, not some idealist bullshit ass “we need a non hierarchical society” and a belief that you just get there by fucking magic. You are going to need to have a political organization of some kind, and guess what? The establishment of that is inherently fucking hierarchical!

                What makes it good is not being a hierarchy based on fucking nobility or property ownership or oppressive class relations, dipshit. You are better off jerking yourself to death in your goon cave than chasing after some platonic ideal of A Lack of Hierarchy when here in the fucking real world the bourgoisie, fascists and cops are closing the noose around your neck and mine.

                I’d tell you to grow the fuck up but I know you’re just going to keep crying about authority and hierarchy while every single fucking lying weaselly ass statement from your mouth assists the imperialists and the bourgeoisie, whether you know it or not

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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                  2 days ago

                  Tankies :“immature”, “anakiddie”, “liberal”, “reactionary”, “ignorant”, “waaaa”

                  Also tankies : “what about that left unity doe?”

                  A tale repeated since the nonsense that is “on authority”

                  But thanks for reinforcing to the audience why one just not align with (nevermind trust) MLs.

                  • Hestia [she/her, fae/faer]@hexbear.net
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                    2 days ago

                    They’re not calling anarchists idiots. They’re explicitly referring to you who started being combative right out of the gate with this dumb fucking meme

          • TheLepidopterists [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            3 days ago

            The USSR was also destroyed by encirclement and (nearly 100 years) of pressure from reactionaries.

            But again, you and and the people on the comm you named after yourself are the ones hypocritically positing that any socialist project that fails is evidence that that project’s ideology inevitably leads to capitalist takeover. None of the “tankies” on Hexbear are saying that because it’s asinine, but if you actually believe it, to be ideologically consistent, would require condemning anarchism also.

            red fash

            Deeply unserious

            • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              3 days ago

              The USSR was also destroyed by encirclement and (nearly 100 years) of pressure from reactionaries.

              Yeah, right… it had absolutely nothing to do with the batshit-insane economic and social blundering of the CPSU.

              Nothing at all.

              • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                2 days ago

                It was literally the fastest growing economic system of all time. It went from wooden hand-drawn plows to spaceflight in a single generation, while defeating the most devastating invasion in human history. The nation once called “the India of Europe” became the first interplanetary civilization.

                Then, after the entire collective might of the capitalist world had slaughtered dozens of millions of the bravest and most committed communists, it started falling apart because liberals took over. It was dissolved illegally, against the wishes of 70% of the population that voted in a referendum to keep the Union, in a bloody coup that killed over 2000 people fighting against its destruction. By the end of the 90s there had been 7-10 million excess deaths above the death rate of the 80s in Russia alone, making it one of the worst non-war human-caused humanitarian disasters of all time.

                In short, the people of the USSR were revolutionaries and heroes, whereas you are a grotty little chauvinist from the imperial core who doesn’t want to improve the world, because if you did you would want to win, and if you wanted to win you would read history, and if you read history you would come to the same conclusion.

                • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  2 days ago

                  It was literally the fastest growing economic system of all time.

                  Yeah… I think Marxism-Leninism is the only ideology that dictates that you do colonialism against yourself.

                  first interplanetary civilization.

                  Lol! Been overdoing the sci-fi a bit, tankie?

                  the bravest and most committed communists

                  Just to clarify… you are not talking about the ones murdered on Stalin’s orders, right?

                  against the wishes of 70% of the population

                  Stop fooling yourself, tankie - the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.

                  In short, the people of the USSR were revolutionaries and heroes

                  Oh, really? So where did those liberals come from, then?

                  because if you did you would want to win

                  You mean… unlike you?

                  • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.netBanned from community
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                    1 day ago

                    Motherfucker okay this is where I get heated.

                    Yeah… I think Marxism-Leninism is the only ideology that dictates that you do colonialism against yourself.

                    You have never read any anti-colonial theory in your life and it shows. Fucking cracker “anarchists” I swear to god.

                    first interplanetary civilization.

                    Lol! Been overdoing the sci-fi a bit, tankie?

                    Yes the USSR was the first country to land a probe on a moon that wasn’t ours.

                    Just to clarify… you are not talking about the ones murdered on Stalin’s orders, right?

                    Source?

                    Stop fooling yourself, tankie - the fact that a large majority of the Soviet population saw no need to dismember the Union doesn’t mean they also wanted your faux-socialism.

                    jesse-wtf that still means that 70% were in favor of maintaining the USSR.

                    Oh, really? So where did those liberals come from, then?

                    Counterrevolutionaries will be something we have to contend with until we abolish capitalism globally.

                    You mean… unlike you?

                    You want to lose?

                  • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    2 days ago

                    It’s colonialism when you teach peasants how to read and give them telegraph poles and combine harvesters. You are a fucking stupid historically illiterate imperial core roleplayer piece of shit, the USSR was the first anticolonial nation in history, they fought on the morally correct side of nearly every anticolonial struggle in the world in the 20th century. As just even a single example, in 1961, the USSR used its veto powers in the UN to stop a forced ceasefire, allowing the Indians to invade and liberate the Portugese-held island of Goa, literally kicking out colonialists.

                    But it’s interesting that you seem to agree with the representative of Portugal that the USSR has ‘shamed the whole of mankind’.

                    The USSR created the first artifical satellite, put the first man in space, put the first woman in space, conducted the first spacewalk, landed the first spacecraft on the moon, landed the first spacecraft on another planet (Venus), built the first space station and landed the first spacecraft on Mars. The first black man in space was an Afro-Cuban man who went on in a Soviet rocket. Eight of the first ten nationalities in space were from the ‘eastern block’. ‘Astronaut Barbie’ was released by Mattel two years after the first Soviet woman went to space, and twenty years BEFORE the first US woman would.

                    Anyway I’m tired of reading your overwrought self-righteous self-important reddit liberal style of argumentation, all form and no substance, so just feel free to go read a book (assuming that’s something you’re actually capable of) and argue with that instead.

              • bort [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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                3 days ago

                If your ideology can’t stand up against outside forces then surely it’s just not a good ideology?

                I was an anarchist myself for a long time, and I’m still really sympathetic to anarchist ideas and movements, but for me it’s just hard to see it as anything but utopianism when, despite all the good intention and internal consistency, it just can’t ever seem to survive contact with the real world.

                  • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    2 days ago

                    Well no, see, those dont count, because reasons.

                    Maybe if you weren’t a complete tool if the capitalist, you would understand this, but i cannot explain. Because it’s secret to people who paid attention through all of ‘capital’. Which you didn’t or obviously you’d agree with me and there would be no need to explain.

        • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.netBanned from community
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          2 days ago

          This is so disgustingly wrong it actually pisses me off. Our enemies were fascists and imperialists for the most part. Fuck dude Lenin even aided Makhno.

          • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 days ago

            This is so disgustingly wrong it actually pisses me off.

            What are you going to do about it, tankie?

            Our enemies

            There is no “our” here, tankie - you are the enemy here.

            Lenin even aided Makhno.

            Really? Is that why the Bolsheviks perpetrated mass-slaughter in Ukraine to repress the Makhnovists? To “aid” them?