Also this comment:
I will not be spinning up instances of anything. I will seed hashes in bittorrent-like P2P networks, I will put my posts where they fit, I will look for posts from others in the most anti-censorship ways I can find, and I will hope devs and server admins create a version of Lemmy that’s fitting for more of my posts - while hurrying toward a possible future where Tor isn’t enough to make Lemmy relevant anymore, because P2P networks become the only place worth posting anything.
Simplex isn’t what I use for free speech, nostr is, and my slurs are generally not racial.
Lmao
My “my slurs are generally not racial” shirt is raising a lot of questions already answered by my shirt
tagliNE TAGLINE lmao
MODS ADD IT
generally
This person wants 0 censorship?
Wants 0 censorship and starts to work towards it by blocking everything he doesn’t like.
This definitely checks out for a
warrior.Guys, he just really needs it to work with tor, for you know, reasons.
I love the their replies. They are so naive, it’s adorable.
Just host your own fucking instance then nerd
No thanks.
Server admins can host their own instances when Tor support is added, though.
LMAO! I want you to do everything I tell you and I won’t lift a finger! Of course buddy, you are 12.
EDIT: Oh my they’re a one-person struggle session! :deep-nesting:
They even point to the benign rules (no ads, no porn, be respectful, no bigotry) as an example of censorship! Of course you do, you are 12.
checks it a day later how the hell is it up to almost 700 comments
This is word vomit and nonsensical. Also this person doesn’t really understand what federation is supposed to be. Seems like the average sh.itsjust.nazi user
The subject OP is still going. It’s absurd.
For fun, go in there and tell them TOR was made by the CIA lmao
18·4 days agoOr the NRL. Why the Navy? Idk, US bullshit
That’s just the CIA but it’s wet lol
Guy I used to play wow with was training to be a translator for Farsi for naval intelligence before he realized he was basically CIA and quit lmao
Good for him lol
How to make a zero censorship instance:
- defederate every other instance
- disable signup
- say all the slurs in peace
lw still waits a month or two to defederate/tries to get them to enable federation with them
Lemmy urgently needs federation between onion service instances and DNS addresses in order to actually do what most users seem to wish it would do: allow discussion outside what the corporate authorities allow, while outgrowing reddit & helping undo the damage social media has done to human communication.
Shit thesis. The people that want this degree of speech are the people that would turn away any potential growth because they’re obnoxious pedophiles and drug addicts. Not that there’s anything wrong with drugs but the kinds of people who build their identity around them cause everyone who isn’t into drugs to want to get far away from them. You won’t be “outgrowing reddit” on this approach.
These people are part of the early adopter crowd so it’s useful to make something that they will try and spread but you have to silo them away from everyone else while you do it or else they’ll actively destroy the future of your platform rather than help its growth. Reddit discovered this when it had its violentacrez moment.
People who make deathsticks their whole personality are so tiresome.
The only good Jedi do is mindtrick-rehab people into not wanting to do deathsticks and go home to rethink their lives.
That is a wild ammount of words from a guy that needs his emotional support slurs
Love the whole “didn’t ask, why tf are you talking to me?!” gambit in conjunction with the “you aren’t arguing in gOoD fAiTh, why do you dare make me copy and paste bits of my rant to absolutely demolish your argument instead of reading my divinely inspired prose that seemingly no one in this 100+ comment chain understood?” responses to people pointing out why they are wrong.
Chud just wants to gargle Hitler’s balls and ogle lolis hosted on someone else’s computer and is upset that the (non-governmental) entity ICANN will turn off his DNS if he dares try.
surely there is a tor proxy they can use to set up their cp paradise
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Isnt the whole point is to be able to setup whatever the fuck instance with whatever the fuck rules so literally just make a slur instance
For once, I’m sad we don’t federate with shit.just.doesntwork. There’s no such thing as a no censorship instance, because at the very least CSAM has to be filtered out. The whole concept of censorship has been weaponized by fascists who want to be able to infiltrate every space.
The whole concept of censorship has been weaponized by fascists who want to be able to infiltrate every space.
Freedom of preach
I wish hexbear was more chill about piracy though.
Hexbear is absolutely pro piracy
The ToS is not pro piracy
Most likely that’s to limit legal liability. I’ve never seen anybody get blasted for advocating for piracy or against piracy on hexbear.
That’s what I want to get at. There is a certain amount of ass covering going on.
I don’t care about advocating piracy but if I started posting warez to /c/gaming it would probably get removed.
If you start posting random links to warez in a way that’s basically spamming/advertising, yeah it’ll get removed.
Sorry, we do not want c/gaming to become just a zillion links to software nobody cares about, and we aren’t a .torrent aggregator. We just don’t want to blot out posting by becoming a glorified RSS feed of torrents.
If you’re replying to a comment looking for something difficult to find with a relevant magnet link or something, that’s probably fine as long as ya know it’s not a virus.
I don’t care about advocating piracy but if I started posting warez to /c/gaming it would probably get removed.
If you uploaded warez files directly to the instance that probably would get removed, and imo rightfully so we shouldn’t get this community obliterated for hosting files that can be found elsewhere with better download speeds(and privacy by using magnetised and proxiedied torrenting if you care to put the effort in)
posting links to other places hosting the files is fine, I’ve done it myself and never had any pushback from users, mods or admins
i.e the music comm post links to music hosted by people other than the official rights holder’s constantly
but if I started posting warez to /c/gaming it would probably get removed.
Of course citizen! :pirate-jammin: is totally not cool! Please ignore me gesturing with my eyes and mouthing “look over there” :angel-biblical-shh:
nothing to see here citizen!
I’m not sure what you expected to find here, citizen. Isn’t it a lovely day under Capitalism?
I shall now go and post only good things about our economic system.
Are the
and 
gone?It’s self-protection against aggressive content companies via plausible deniability. As a public instance anybody can look at what we post including the content police. Because it’s Federated anybody can receive our federated broadcasts including content police. It’s very similar to why we don’t post :cool-zone: stuff because we know the :fedposting: are watching. We don’t like it, it really does suck, but we also don’t want Hexbear targeted because we got too spicy and we bring heat on the admins. I mean, we are here for doing a little :john-brown: posting (as a treat) on :reddit-logo: after all.
However we do federate with :straw-hat-pirates: instances, and there are specific comms for different media in the instance above you can subscribe to. They are better equipped to defend themselves against content companies’ shenanigans.
To be a pirate sometimes you must not appear as a pirate when the :porky-point: is looking.
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Community is pro piracy in general, gotta be careful about posting certain things like direct download links in open chat though.
That’s what I mean. It’s cool when stuff is censored when the community doesn’t like it but in this case stuff is censored even though the community likes it.
Dropping direct links can attract unwanted attention from authorities, its also a way for a bad actor to get somebody infected with a virus or a malicious file.
Like, asking for a direct download link to the next Zootopia film and getting a link to a CSAM video in a public comment is very not worth it.
Yeah but the reason is probably not wanting lawyers and feds up their asses. Which is fair but also kind of supports the point the original poster we are dunking on was making.
The CSAM link should obviously get moderated away. Since we all don’t want CSAM in our community (I hope). A link to Zootopia should stay up.
Except that somebody will have to click the publicly available link to the malicious file without knowing its a malicious file.
Its not an arbitrary act of censorship on behalf of the moderators or community, its an act of self defense. There’s no rule that says you cannot, after asking, get a link in a private message.
I don’t get the argument. Hexbear doesn’t ban links in general.
The ToS also doesn’t mention that we shouldn’t post warez to avoid malware but to respect IP law.
that’s probably just to protect the sources from gathering undue attention? i can’t imagine why else they would be censored
is it not? i’ve never seen anything pro-piracy removed
I think the only thing ive ever gotten any pushback on over the years ive asked for help getting stuff is an obscure punk album that I couldn’t pay the bandcamp price for and wanted to rip it from the site. Generally I think this place is pretty open about it, innit?
What are you talking about?
Where’s the piracy community jack?
c/movies, c/anime, c/games, c/technology
They are right about TOR. Between the TikTok bullshit and porn sites requiring ID, it blows me away that more leftists aren’t preparing for the obvious hammer hanging over their heads.
I don’t necessarily think they are right about Tor. Why isn’t DNS and IP addressing sufficient?
Most DNS registers aren’t going to blast your DNS records, and even if they do, you don’t have to specify ones from the United States or in the West, you can go to other countries that are more friendly to whatever particular ideology you’re working with.
It hasn’t even been a year since Hexbear spent a month in limbo because of Domain Name shenanigans brought on by its own admins.
Most DNS registers aren’t going to blast your DNS records, and even if they do, you don’t have to specify ones from the United States or in the West, you can go to other countries that are more friendly to whatever particular ideology you’re working with.
Most DNS registrars aren’t going to abide with the demands of Law Enforcement?
- lol. What? I’m sorry, but that is incredibly naïve.
- Hopping around from domain name to domain name, country to country hoping for the best is not how to keep a community alive and will absolutely shrink your userbase every time. We are not the pirate bay, the service sites like hexbear offers are not nearly in demand as free shit.
Yeah because it’s easier and safer to find sites on tor?
The DNS registers do work with the authorities, but it’s very, very, very rare for them to just straight up remove somebody’s records.
DNS shenanigans involving non-renewal of records is a very very common issue among the internet not just hexbear.
Tor supposedly has massive infiltration ftrom different governments and can suffer from degraded performance and security.
Yes, setting up your DNS name with a DNS register in a country that’s hostile to the west such as possibly China or Russia would probably help insulate you from these issues.
Like, what you’re talking about isn’t necessarily ridiculous, but as somebody that literally works in this industry in the west, I can tell you for a fact that these DNS registers do not give a flying fuck about the law unless it’s going to cost them lots and lots of money, like most capitalist companies.
I’ve literally not been able to get them to take down hacking sites, scam sites, pornographic sites, CSAM sites, they don’t care. Not only that, DNS itself is decentralized, which is why it’s beneficial to have several DNS names that aren’t associated with Western countries.
I didn’t say they give a shit about the law, I implied they’re gonna abide with Law Enforcement. Are you Law Enforcement?
No. Are you in government and can confirm the DNS registers are the bogey man you think they are?
Tor federation sounds good but it also doesn’t feel like a priority. If y’all want it so bad go figure out how to add it to lemmy since it’s open source.
Lol. Boogey men? We regularly see piracy sites get nuked via compliance from registrars and their hosting providers. Your assertions otherwise are silly.
I wish I could, but I have my own projects that require most of my attention if I’m going to be able to eat each month.
That’s really interesting, and I would love to know more about that, because last I recall, most piracy sites aren’t necessarily brought down by the DNS registers, but by their hosting providers. If you have an example of a DNS register responding like that, I’d love to know more about it.
It is easier for the authorities to go after the host then it is for the DNS register.
You’re not wrong on the tor thing, but I do think the concern is really overblown right now.
The only dns i need is /etc/hosts
I’m going to do my best to give a good-faith answer to why TOR isn’t the answer it seems to be. Leftists should understand the limitations of the technology we use so we can properly adjust our own personal security postures.
Content moderation is difficult to impossible with TOR
A TOR instance would be very difficult (if not impossible) to moderate while keeping its users safe. By design you can’t block a troll by IP; 4chan runs into this problem constantly. If you force users to register with email then all security will be compromised for both the user and server when it sends out emails over the clearnet, to say nothing if the server is compromised. AFAIK no email provider will accept an email sent through TOR.
Even if the Onion instance(s) didn’t care about moderation (like the original ranter wants), other instances will care about the griefing and spam, driving them to defederate with the Onion instance(s).
Old members of
chapo.chatHexbear will remember several attempts to flood this site with all kinds of trash, or the great purge of transphobes. Content moderation is the key to keeping us from becoming another cesspool or falling offline. Ironically the *chans have similar moderation for the exact same reason.Technological security can be undermined shockingly easily with one mistake
For the sake of argument, and to steelman your position, lets pretend the above are solved. One huge danger of technological security is it gives many a false sense of their own security. Look at the recent Young Republican leaks, or really any leak from far right types. All of Signalgate was because a journalist was accidentally invited into the chat. Basic social engineering often gets the goods.
Most busts of by the feds are human factors, like a lapse in security or reusing an email. Powers-that-be can also find and go after the admins, which can compromise the site no matter the technological security. The Feds cracked LulzSec by a slip-up from Sabu and from there dismantled the whole group from the inside.
Backtrace Security had found his identity through an IRC chatlog in which Sabu accidentally posted a link to his personal website.
The breadth of the raids on LulzSec suspects and hardware across the world should give everybody pause from a security standpoint.
I haven’t even covered securing the server from hackers.
Conclusion
At the end of the day, Lemmy is designed to get us out from under Corporate control, just like phpbb forums back in the day. Being a Person of Interest by nation-states is a completely different beast. Everybody should read Diary of a Person of Interest to see just how much power the Five Eyes can put on you.
I hate being the debbie-downer. I do wish we could build more secure software to protect people, but I want to keep people safe by giving a realistic view of the technological limitations. With the limitations in mind people can adjust their own security posture to mitigate the issues above for themselves.
Look, I appreciate you trying but this really isn’t a takedown.
- The IP blocking is an issue regardless of TOR or not. There is nothing stopping me from spending 10 bucks to get a couple gigs of proxy data and having access to all the IPs I want for using hexbear. I could be running the rhetoric of this entire site in a matter of months and you wouldn’t even know it. Hell, to your point I can still use TOR to get access to hexbear right now, that’s not even what this discussion is about.
- “There’s still the possibility of fucking up and exposing yourself.” Is not an excuse not to add an additional layer of security. We are in deep shit if this is how Leftists are gonna approach opsec in the future.
- You’re not even addressing the base concern that spawned this conversation which is that by putting services like Lemmy onto TOR it makes it harder for the sites to be taken down.
It’s nothing personal but I’m not gonna respond after this. I’m really getting tired of being pulled into
after by folks who are just repeating what other people told them. If you folks have not at the very least, run your own hidden service, you are not equipped to be lecturing or debating people on TOR.
BREAKING: Fake commie threatens real commie with violence on the internet (this has never happened across all internet discussions)
makes an account on sh.it’sjustfash
